DeCamp Legal Services, P.C.
Legal - Public Relations - Lobbying
414 So. 11th Street
Lincoln, NE 68508
Fax: (402) 477-4487
Phone: (402) 477-3974
Attorneys at Law
John W. DeCamp
John E. Beltzer
Antonio E. Bendezu
Steven A. Montag
Richard J. Mahlin
February 25, 1999
To Whom It Concerns:
The trial on February 5, 1999 resulted in a million dollar judgement. I believe that judgement, completely independent of the Default Judgement in the case because the singular issue was damages, makes it clear that the evidence presented was credible and Judge Urbom acted on that basis and to send a message to a number of individuals (both clean and dirty) who were a part of the Franklin saga. I believe the U.S. Attorney has no choice but to either CHARGE THE WITNESSES WITH PERJURY HAVING TESTIFIED UNDER OATH IN A FEDERAL COURT ON VERY MATERIAL MATTERS (From Murder to Bribery to Perjury to the most vile corruption involving young people) OR, THE U.S. ATTORNEY HAS AN OBLIGATION TO INIVESTIGATE. FURTHER INTO THE FRANKLIN SAGA AND REOPEN MATTERS This time there ARE PICTURES. This time RUSTY NELSON exists and testified completely contrary to Chief Wadman's testimony under oath to the legislature. This time Noreen Gosch validated the credibility and story of Paul Bonacci... and a lot, lot more. At minimum some Federal or State authority (Whether it is a Judge. Attorney General. Prosecutor. etc.) has an obligation to reopen particularly the Alisha Owen case. If my witnesses in Court on February 5, 1999 are telling the truth, then Alisha Owen is also. If Alishn Owen is LYING, as a jury said then my witnesses are lying, It appears to me to put the U.S. Attorney and Nebraska Attomey General and Judicial System on the horns of a dilemma - and failure to act would to me at least appear to be deliberate obstruction of justice at a minimum.
John W. DeCamp
DeCamp Legal Services
US DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
99 F E B 22 AM 8 : 14
GARY D MCFARLAND
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
PAUL A. BONACCI, 4:CV91-33037
vs. MEMORANDUM OF DECISION
LAWRENICE E. KING,
On February 27, 1998, I found that default judgment should be entered against the defendant Lawrence E. King in favor of the plaintiff, Paul A. Bonaccl. A trial on the issue of the damages due the plaintiff by that defendant was had on February 5, 1999.
Two counts are alleged against the defendant King in the complaint. Count V alleges a conspiracy with public officers to deprive the plaintiff of his civil rights, designed to continue to subject the plaintiff to emotional abuse and to prevent him from informing authorities of criminal conduct. Count VII charges battery, false imprisonment, infliction of emotional distress, negligence and conspiracy to deprive the plaintiff of civil rights. Between December 1980 and 1988, the complaint alleges, the defendant King continually subjected the plaintiff to repeated sexual assaults, false imprisonments, infliction of extreme emotional distress, organized and directed satanic rituals, forced the plaintiff to "scavenge" for children to be a part of the defendant King's sexual abuse and pornography ring, forced the plaintiff to engage in numerous sexual contacts with the defendant King and others and participate in deviate sexual games and masochistic orgies with other minor children. The defendant King's default has made those allegations true as to him. The issue now is the relief to be granted monetarily.
The now uncontradicted evidence is that the plaintiff has suffered much. He has suffered bums, broken fingers, beatings of the head and face and other indignities by the wrongful actions of the defendant King. In addition to the misery of going through the experiences just related over a period of eight years, the plaintiff has suffered the lingering results to the present time. He is a victim of multiple personality disorder, involving as many as fourteen distinct personalities aside from his primary personality. He has given up a desired military career and received threats on his life. He suffers from sleeplessness, has bad dreams, has difficulty in holding a job, is fearful that others are following him, fears getting killed, has depressing flashbacks, and is verbally violent on occasion, all in connection with the multiple personality disorder and caused by the wrongful activities of the defendant King.
Almost certainly the defendant King has little remaining financial resources, but a fair judgment to compensate the plaintiff is necessary. For the sixteen years since the abuse of the plaintiff began I conclude that a fair compensation for the damages he has suffered is $800,000.
A punitive award also is justified, but the amount needs to be limited because of the small effect that such a judgment would have on the defendant King, given his financial condition and his presence now in prison. I deem a punitive award of $200,000 to be adequate.
Dated February 19, 1999.
BY THE COURT
Warren K. Urbom
United States Senior District. Judge
US DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
99 F E B 22 AM 8 : 15
GARY D MCFARLAND
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
PAUL A. BONACCI, 4:CV91-3037
LAWRENCE E. KING,
IT IS ORDERED that the plaintiff shall have judgment against the defendant Lawrence E. King in the amount of $1,000,000 and taxable court costs in accordance with the Memorandum of Decision of today, together with interest at the rate of 4.584 percent per annum.
Dated February 19, 1999.
BY THE COURT
Warren K. Urbom
United States Senior District Judge
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
PAUL A. BONACCI, (4:91CV3037)
Plaintiff, vs. TRANSCRIPT
LAWRENCE E. KING, Defendants.
Hearing held before the Honorable Warren K. Urbom, Senior United States District Judge, on February 5, 1999 in Lincoln, Nebraska.
Mr. John DeCamp
Attorney at Law
414 South 1lth Street
Lincoln, Nebraska for Plaintiff
WITNESS Direct Cross Redirect Recross
Noreen Gosch 5
Russell Nelson 36
Paul Bonacci 101
Denise Bonacci 155
(At 9:01, the following proceedings were held.)
THE COURT: This is the case of Paul A. Bonacci versus Lawrence E. King, 4:91CV3037. I see the plaintiff, Mr. Paul Bonacci, here with his counsel Mr. DeCamp. I do not see anyone representing Lawrence E. King. Is there anyone here representing Mr. King? I take it not. A default judgment has been entered against him. And the purpose of this proceeding is to determine the amount of damages that are to be awarded. Mr. DeCamp, you may proceed. Want to make an opening statement or not is entirely up to you. You may do that or call your witnesses as you choose.
MR. DECAMP: May it please the Court, a very, very brief opening statement. What I want to establish here today, Your Honor, if at all possible, is the entire picture or scene in which Mr. Bonacci lived and prove to this Court's satisfaction the stories he tells in his petition are in fact true and the trauma that results from those stories is in fact very real. And even, Your Honor, we would hope that the Court, after hearing some of the evidence and information today for the first time ever, would maybe even on its own initiative take some appropriate action to correct some other wrongs or launch some other investigations that may be needed, Your Honor.
THE COURT: That's not within my authority. So I can't do that. But I can award damages. And that's why we're here today.
MR. DECAMP: Yes, Your Honor. So my first witness I would call would be Noreen Gosch.
THE COURT: Come forward, please.
THE CLERK: Maam, would you state your full name and spell it, please?
THE WITNESS: Noreen Natalie Gosch.
THE CLERK: Noreen is?
THE WITNESS: Beg your pardon?
THE CLERK: Would you spell Noreen?
THE WITNESS: N-o-r-e-e-n.
THE CLERK: Natalie?
THE WITNESS: N-a-t-a-l-i-e. And Gosch, G-o-s-c-h.
THE CLERK: Noreen Natalie Gosch. Noreen, N-o-r-e-e-n, Natalie Gosch, G-o-s-c-h.
NOREEN N. GOSCH
Called as a witness, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
THE COURT: Sorry, tell me again, how do you spell your last name?
THE WITNESS: G-o-s-c-h.
THE COURT: G-o-s-c-h?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. DeCamp.
MR. DECAMP: Yes, Your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DECAMP:
Q. Noreen, you arrived in Lincoln last night, is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And where is your home?
A. West Des Moines, Iowa.
Q. And how long have you lived there?
A. 28 years.
Q. And do you have family there?
A. Not any more.
Q. Did you have family there?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Who did you have as part of your family?
A. I had my children and my husband.
Q. How many children?
A. Three children. The two older children have moved away and married. My youngest son was kidnapped and as a result of a lot of ensuing problems we divorced, my ex-husband and I, and I don't know where he's at.
Q. Your son was a paperboy in Des Moines, is that right?
A. That is correct.
Q. And his name was what?
A. John David Gosch.
Q. Johnny Gosch he's typically referred to in the newspapers, is that correct?
A. Johnny Gosch, yes. He had his paper route for 13 months running. And had been an employee of the Des Moines Register.
Q. And how old was he when he was kidnapped?
A. He was 12 years old.
Q. And what year was he kidnapped?
A. September 5th, 1982.
Q. And has he been located?
A. Yes and no.
Q. Well come back to that.
Q. Was the crime investigated?
A. When my son was kidnapped that morning it was my utter total shock and amazement that the law enforcement did not respond the way I had envisioned that a kidnapping would be investigated. The investigating police officer to take the initial report did not come to our home till 45 minutes after I called in my son being missing. And in the length of time that it took him to arrive I had already telephoned the district manager for the newspaper, found out the names of all the witnesses that were there that morning. Johnny was kidnapped a short distance from our home and also within a block from the paper drop site. In that short amount of time I was able to contact all the witnesses, talk to them. I found out the description of the man who was talking to him on the comer. The description of the car. And when the police officer came in the only thing he brought in was the sheet of paper to fill out for the initial report. And I began telling him everything I had learned. And he looked at me and he said, well, has your son ever run away before? I said, he's never run away. He was taken. And I have these statements. I later found out that -- well, then the police officer left and we didn't I see anybody from the police department until 3:00 o'clock that same afternoon. My call went in at 7:30 a.m. I later found out that the police did in fact contact the witnesses that I had reported I talked to but they didn't I even so much as bring a clipboard into their homes to take notes. And all the witnesses thought it was very strange since there was a little boy missing as to why the police would not even take notes as to what the witnesses had seen.
Q. Since the kidnapping occurred have you become extremely active in the issue of missing children?
A. I have become extremely active in both the avenues of missing children and also trying to find my own son and solve his case. As to why he was taken, who was responsible.
Q. Your son's picture was one of the first ones to appear, for example, on milk cartons, wasn't it?
A. Yes, the milk carton effort was started in Des Moines, Iowa by Anderson Erickson Dairy. And my son and Eugene Martin were the first two missing children to be ever put on a milk carton.
Q. Who is Eugene Martin?
A. Eugene Martin is another paper carrier from West Des Moines or from Des Moines and he was kidnapped within a short time after Johnny, less than two years.
Q. And has he been located?
A. He has not been located to my knowledge. During the course of the investigation, the first year of it, the FBI paid a visit to our home and said they would not be entering the case. The police chief just would not order things to be done. They would not bring in aerial search, they wouldn't bring in a K-9 team, they didn't do the normal things that you would do to try and rule out a murder, for instance, if there was a missing person and a body somewhere. So I contacted the National Guard and they told me that, yes, they would use their helicopters but they would charge me $600 an hour in order to do it. And that became a news item, because we did have a lot of press coverage on this story. And a TV station from Omaha offered their helicopter for free. And that's when I began working very closely with the media to assist me.
Q. And you over the years have worked closely with the media, is that correct?
A. Yes, I have. They have been most helpful. I have a great many allies within the media. I treat them fairly and they know that when they speak to me I speak the truth. I have no reason to embellish anything and therefore I've become reliable and someone they know ifthey do a story on they're not going to have to do a retraction.
Q. Back to the issue of participation in groups and with politicians that have written laws on this, have you been active in that area?
A. Yes. Within the first year after Johnny was missing, I realized that partly the reason that no one looked for Johnny except his family was because there was no law on the books in Iowa or most any other state in the country specifying that the police would have to act sooner than 72 hours. Even though we had five witnesses that could describe the car, the man and various details of the kidnapping. So I wrote the first piece of legislation which became the Johnny Gosch bill. I got a senator and a representative to sponsor the bill in 24 both houses, same version, different numbers, in 25 hopes that one would pass. The first year it went down the funnel. I started the next year again and drummed the state capitol. I absolutely, they were sick of seeing me, I was up there. So, and then I went on the national speaking circuit. And I was all over the country speaking but whenever I was in Iowa I would pass a legislative sign up sheet and I would ask people that were of voting age to sign it. And then whenever we needed assistance or pressure to be brought to bear upon a representative or a senator we could activate a telephone tree and generate at least five hundred calls into the statehouse within an hour. And that became very successful because it was an election year.
Q. Did you get some laws passed?
A. Yes. The Johnny Gosch bill was passed in 1984, signed by the governor of Iowa, Governor Branstad, on July I st. While we were there at the signing there was a lot of press, and none of us knew that within a month and 10 days that that law would be put to the test. Because Eugene Martin was taken in August, a month following the signing of the Johnny Gosch bill into law. Then Missouri, Minnesota, Illinois, many other states contacted me. I testified before their legislatures and they have all adopted a version of the Johnny Gosch bill. And it stands in many other states as the Johnny Gosch law.
Q. And have you, you stated you worked with the media in trying to promote the laws and also in helping to find Johnny, can you describe some of that?
A. I did a lot of press conferences, a lot of TV shows, whenever there was information that could be safely released on Johnny I would release it so that we could keep the story alive. You can't keep saying Johnny Gosch is missing, Johnny Gosch is missing, or any other child, you have to provide the news media with something they can broadcast that's new news. So I learned to work very closely with them. I was also on all of the talk shows. There was a Home Box Office, HBO movie done about Johnny's case. I've been very active in all facets. But I think my greatest feeling of accomplishment of actually helping to protect other children, I founded the Johnny Gosch Foundation. And the IRS put us on a restrictive two year probationary situation in which we had to prove that we were helping other children. So that's when I developed my speaking tour, the program that I presented to help parents learn what a pedophile is, what they do and how they get children to come with them or to kidnap them or molest them. And that was probably the most rewarding and successful part of it because I was able to hands on actually help other families. And I know for a fact I've helped prevent other abductions.
Q. Have you then had contact and worked with a number of families that have ended up with missing children or kidnapped children?
A. Yes, kidnapped children, murdered children. And during that same timeframe between 1982 and 84 I worked very closely with the officials in Washington and I testified before the Justice Department as to the need for monies to be appropriated for a National Center For Missing Children. Myself and several other families who had suffered the same loss, we were all gathered together and we were told to tell our story and name names of who did what and who didn't do their jobs. And I did that. And so did the other families. And then a short time later the Justice Department appropriated the first 10 million dollars for the National Center For Missing Children. And I was invited to the openings and to the White House to meet with President Reagan.
Q. Noreen, I'm going to move to a slightly different area now. During the time that Johnny has been missing from when the original kidnapping occurred until the present, have you been contacted on many occasions with offers of assistance or people who claim they have knowledge of what happened?
A. I've had a lot of people contact me with information, sightings, things that they thought might be helpful. And in each case we would have our private investigators check it out to see if it was valid or not. And a lot of people were well meaning but some of the information wasn't good and some of it was. We were able to put together what was the start of a huge jigsaw puzzle by using the information we gathered. And after each national television appearance there would always be a generation of a great many leads that would come in for to us follow. Some good, some not so good.
Q. Did you ever have bogus contacts?
A. A few. A few that just were intent on trying to bilk us out of money or some reason or other attain some acclaim for themselves by attaching themself to a nationally known case. And with that I'm referring to psychics. There are only four that I know of that I've worked with, and I've talked to 700 psychics over the years, there's only been about four that are, truly have a gift in any area. The rest of them can only spell the word. But some of the ones that can only spell the words are the ones that wanted to tag on to our case and say they have been working on the Gosch case because it was a well known case.
Q. Do you know Paul Bonacci?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Can you tell us how you came to know Paul Bonacci?
A. In 1991, I believe it was -- let me check my notes, I wrote it down -- yes, it was in 1991 and it was the spring of 1991, I was at my office and suddenly people called me on the phone and said that there was a news release that was being generated by NBC in Des Moines, Channel 13, saying that there was a young man in prison in Lincoln, Nebraska that had given information that he was part of the Johnny Gosch kidnapping. Well, immediately everyone wanted statements from me. The FBI showed up at my office, practically pinned me on the wall, wanted to know what this was all about. And I had no clue, I did not know anything about it. The whole climate of Des Moines was just crazy when this happened. Because everybody had been wanting to see Johnny's case solved. Well, Later that night I got home and I waited all night long. My husband never came home. He didn't walk in the door till 6:00 a.m. And I said, where have you been? Surely you've heard the news. And he said, yeah, I heard it. But he says, I've known about Bonacci for almost two years and I didn't tell you. And I couldn't believe it. I later found out years later that he came to Lincoln, Nebraska after Paul had confided in his attorney, you, that he had knowledge of the Gosch case. You called our home. My husband took the call, never told me. And he came to Lincoln and subsequently went to the prison but he brought another woman with him and introduced her as Noreen Gosch. Someone who masqueraded as me. And we have, you know, witnesses to prove that. Why he did this I'm not quite sure. I do know that he went to the prison to talk to Paul. At length. And then kept it from me for all that length of time. And instructed you to never call our home and to only contact him through a certain number. So when all this started to come about, and I'm digressing now back to when Bonacci surfaced in my world, which was in 1991, I went to the prison to meet him myself that fall. With a private investigator Roy Stephens. And I took along the same NBC reporter that first released the story so he could videotape everything that was said. And during that time during our visit at the prison Paul admitted to me what happened, how Johnny was kidnapped, where they took him, how he was used, where he went on from there. How he was used for pictures, pornographic pictures, many aspects of what I did not know. The TV station ran that as a series. That attracted the attention of America's Most Wanted. They came in and filmed the entire the story and all of what Paul had to say. In the mean time I was able to have a private investigator begin to check out many of the details that Paul had given me. And Paul is telling the truth. He was the first one to ever come to me and tell the truth about what happened to my son.
Q. Noreen, how do you know this isn't just one more story? Why do you believe him rather than somebody else?
A. Because we've had the time to check out many of the things that Paul told us and we found them to be true, to be accurate. Because I have interviewed other young men that have given me the very same sorry. And because I have talked to my son myself one time.
Q. When did you talk to your son?
A. March of 1997.
Q. So you knew as of March, 1997 your son was alive?
A. Right. I had begun to, between 1992 and 97 I had started to give up hope that he was alive. At that point I began to pursue more of the who did it part. The criminal aspect of it. Because I felt that there was no more news on Johnny and I wouldn't have known what he would look like because he obviously aged if he was alive. And in March, in the middle of the night there was knocking on my door. And I went to the door and I looked out and there was a young man out there. And there was someone with him, he had someone with him. I don't know that person's name, they didn't give it to me. And I let him in and we talked for a little over an hour, hour and a half. And he began telling me what had happened to him. And he told me the exact same story that Paul Bonacci had told me in prison. I know that Paul's telling the truth. And I know that my son fell victim to the very same organization that affected and almost destroyed Paul's life and the lives of many other young people.
Q. Is this the first time you've told this story publicly?
A. Yes. And that's because I'm under oath. Otherwise I never have shared that I actually talked to my son.
Q. I understand. Do you have any how do you know it was your son?
A. My son has a very large birthmark on his chest. And I asked to see it.
Q. And was it there?
A. Yes. Yes, it was my son.
Q. Did you have any other reason to know it was your son?
A. He looks like my son. He was able to recall family events. He was able to recall things about his brother and sister growing up that not another soul would know. It was my son. He was, he told me that he was not able to talk freely in the sense that he could come out with his story because there are people that would want to see him dead. And he said, mom, do something. He says, I know about all that you've been doing. I know what you've done in this country. Now he said, please, help me. So I can have a life and the other kids can have a life. And I didn't know where to start at first. Because no one believed us. No one believed Paul at that time. People wanted to forget about Johnny Gosch because it was an embarrassment to Des Moines, Iowa, it was an embarrassment to the police, the FBI, all of them that basically didn't do their jobs. And it was embarrassing for them to see a mother still out there trying to find their son and working three jobs to keep it going financially. And the exact law enforcement agencies you would expect to help didn't. They gave up on it.
Q. Now, when Paul and you met and you videotaped and he described various details, did he tell you he was a young boy at that time who was the one to attract Johnny then for the kidnapping?
A. Yes, he did. When we first met and we were seated at the table at the prison, Paul took one look at me and as soon as he knew who I was he broke down and started to cry. And he said, I'm so sorry. I'm so very sorry. And I looked at him and said, I don I blame you. I don I hate you. Just tell me what happened. And then that's how he told me of the kidnap plan and how it evolved and where he was on the street to attract Johnny to the car. And then what happened to Johnny as far as being drugged and transported to another area. And then he described the events of the first time Johnny was molested. And, yes, it was hard to hear. But at the same time for the first time I was hearing truth. And it was coming from a young man who took such a big step to go public to help me.
He didn't have to do that. He could have gone on with his life and died with that secret. And Paul made the moral decision to go forward to help me --
Q. Do you know how ?
A. -- to help other kids.
Q. Do you know how old Paul was at this time of this?
A. At the time of the kidnapping I believe Paul would have only been about 14 or t5(sic) years old. He was very young himself. He was only a couple of years older than Johnny.
Q. I just found that out. He was used to attract the boy?
A. Yes, he was.
Q. Did he have a name for how they operated this system, scavenger hunt or whatever?
A. Well, he used terms like that. And then he described the car that they used and the driver of the car, a man by the name of Emilio who has a dozen aliases for last names, always drove around with at least license plates in his trunk and would put a different license plate on to always throw off police or anybody that might be trying to record who, what car was at a certain site. Paul also told me that they stayed in a motel not far from the kidnap site the night before the kidnapping, somewhere probably Des Moines or West Des Moines.
Q. When you met with your son did he verify these things?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Before you met with your son were you satisfied or convinced that Paul was telling the truth because of your independent investigation?
A. Yes. I believed Paul right from the beginning. From the day at the prison when the man talked to me. And then in the ensuing months I was able to verify much of what he said. So then it became completely confirmed in my mind. And then when America's Most Wanted entered the case their investigators also worked with our private investigator. And John Walsh of America's Most Wanted happens to be a very good friend of mine, and he told me that he saw this as probably the only real break we've ever had in your case.
Q. Now, America's Most Wanted, as I recall, did a number of programs on this?
A. Yes. They did the first initial one in November of 1992, it aired shortly before Thanksgiving. And at that time it broke the phone bank. They had more phone calls generated in coming in off of this case than they've ever had. Then they did two more follow-up stories in months to come.
Q. Is it not true that America's Most Wanted as part of their programs put out information requesting certain people to come forward if they had information on this?
A. Yes, they did. During the course of the story being relayed they asked that if there were any other young victims of this type of organization that would compare with what Paul had said, would they please come forward?
Q. Did Paul describe to America's Most Wanted a particular type of identifying mark some of the kids had?
A. Yes. We, at that time Paul described it and it was shown on America's Most Wanted. The shape of the mark that they put on the boys, a brand, if you will, they branded them like cattle.
Q. And where did they put this brand?
A. Some had it on their shoulders, some on their hips. Some on their calves of their legs.
Q. And if you know, do you know if in fact some children came forward with that particular brand and contacted America's Most Wanted?
A. Yes. About a month and a half after that show aired I received a letter from a young man that said his name was Jimmy and he related in his letter similar experience of everything that Paul went through. And he continued to write to me. I had no way of contacting him. But in my, finally he called me on the telephone and I said, can we meet somewhere, would you come to Des Moines? III meet you somewhere else if you feel safer. And that went on for about two months. And then in the middle of the night one night the phone rang. And there was a blizzard going on, it was very cold and snowing. And this voice said, well, I'm here. And I said, who's here? He said, it's Jimmy and I'm in Osceola, come in on the train. That's where our nearest train station is. And he said on the way here someone stole my coat. So I went down to the storage room and I got some warm clothes and I got in the car and I drove to Osceola in the middle of the night to meet Jimmy. And we sat until dawn in a little restaurant that stayed open all night. That's when he poured out his whole story of what had happened to him. He had knowledge of Johnny. And the activities that the boys were all involved in. That corresponded to what Paul had said but it picked up the years; that Paul was in prison and went up to present day.
Q. And is it not true that he had the brand?
A. Jimmy had the brand on the calf of his leg.
Q. And is it not true that you had America's Most Wanted film that?
A. Yes. America's Most Wanted interviewed and filmed the brand on Jimmy. His face was blocked out because he was terrified of having his face shown in the country. Then -
Q. And is it not true that they in fact had a doctor examine him to verify this occurred years before and not put on recently?
A. Yes. That was one thing that's determined, that it was an old brand that had been there for a long, long time, that it was not a new brand that he applied just to come in and fake a story. One thing I'd like to mention if I may, during Jimmy's story, he told me that Johnny and several other kids had broken away from the main group that had been using them and abusing them. That they had stolen a car in which they traveled to get away. And Jimmy took them to his father's home. And his father did not know they were in the basement. And Jimmy was bringing food down to them. And one night Jimmy's father noticed a lot of food was missing out of the refrigerator so he followed his son to the basement and found my son and two other boys in the basement. He still did not know names. And so Jimmy gave me his father's phone number. And his name is Richard Gibson in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And I called him. He's an accountant, a CPA, very nice man. He told me that he gave shelter and food and warm clothes to my son for a period of three days. And then the boys moved on. And it was later when he saw another rebroadcast of the America's Most Wanted that he realized that the boy, one of the boys in his basement was in fact my son.
Q. You understand this is, all sounds like an incredible tale?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. Do you have any other compelling reasons to suggest that I or anyone of the general public should believe this story?
A. The only thing that I can add to that is that sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. This really did happen. There was a giant cover-up. There's reasons why they did not investigate Johnny's case because it would have led to other bigger things. And the people that would say they don't believe it better hope to hell that no one ever takes their child for the same reason because they will be in the same boat I am. Dedicating better part of two decades trying to find their child.
Q. It's my recollection, though I wasn't physically present, it's my recollection that America's Most Wanted on the day that Paul Bonacci got out of jail took him and went on a trip where he claimed certain things would be if they go and look in different states, four or five state regions.
A. They went on about five state region. One of the states they were in was Colorado and they did in fact find some of the locations where they kept the kids and places where they would put the kids in the basement. And lock them up so they couldn't get out. And so that if they had visitors to the upper level of the house no one would know the kids were down there. There's one other thing I would like to add when we're talking about the America's Most Wanted story, just prior to the America's Most Wanted story going on the air, we're talking within a week or two of air time, the FBI in Quantico, Virginia contacted America's Most Wanted and told them to kill the story. They did not want the Johnny Gosch story broadcast. And John Walsh, the only reason the story went on is because John Walsh is a personal friend and he stood up to them and he said this story goes. This woman does notlie. I've known her for years. We are going with the story. You can fire me afterwards, we're doing the story. And they did the story. But the FBI tried to kill this story.
Q. Do you know why?
A. Well, of course. It would have opened up the biggest scandal to the United States, bigger than the Iran-Contra story. Bigger than President Clinton's infidelities.
Q. Isn't that story going to be aired at two specials very shortly?
A. Yes. I have a one hour special coming up with the national network. We have investigated, we have talked to so far 35 victims of this said organization that took my son and is responsible for what happened to Paul and they can verify everything that has happened. And this story will be broadcast in the next few months. We're still working on some of the details.
Q. ABC News?
A. Yes. And it is our hope following this story that we will be able to get senate hearings, because it goes that high and that deep.
Q. Did you want to tell more about what it involves?
A. What this story --
Q. Under oath?
A. -- involves is an elaborate function, I will say, that was an offshoot of a government program. The MK Ultra program was developed in the 1950s by the CIA. It was used to help spy on other countries during the cold War because they felt that the other countries were spying on us. It was very successful. They could do it very well. Well, then there was a man by the name of Michael Aquino. He was in the military. He had top Pentagon clearance. He was a pedophile. He was a Satanist. He's founded the Temple of Set. And he was also a very close friend of Anton LaVey. The two of them were very active in ritualistic sexual abuse. And they deferred funding from this government program to use this experimentation upon children. Where they deliberately split off the personalities of these children into multiples so that when they're questioned or put under oath or questioned under lie detector, that unless the operator knows how to question a multiple personality disorder they turn up with no evidence. They use these kids to sexually compromise politicians or anyone else they wish to have control of. This sounds so far out and so bizarre I had trouble accepting it in the beginning myself until I was presented with the data. We have the proof. In black and white. And ABC has been working on this story for over a year. They do not pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into a story that is fake. They have a reputation at stake. When I came to them with my story and told them Johnny was alive and they began investigating they had no idea that they were going to step into this whole other realm of why these kids were taken. They were not just taken to be used by some pedophile, they were taken to be used by professional pedophiles. People that have the money to buy what they want, take the kids wherever they want. And by splitting the children's personalities they could then train each one of the personalities to do a different function. And the rest of the personalities within that host personality would not be aware of it or remember it.
Q. You know, don't you, that Colonel Aquino was drummed out of the military?
A. He was. But then there were no charges actually filed against him that stuck. He was drummed out but that was about it.
Q. Well, that's --
A. I know that Michael Aquino has been in Iowa. I know that Michael Aquino has been to Offutt Air Force Base. I know that he has had contact with many of these children.
Q. Noreen --
A. I've had the death threats as I spoke out over the years and up till recently, I've had death threats. I've had many things happen to me. And I've had people call me and say drop this search for your son or you'll be a dead woman.
Q. You realize this is an incredible tale?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Difficult to believe.
Q. Some would say impossible.
A. They might.
Q. But you believe it's true?
A. I know it's true.
Q. And you believe Paul is telling the truth?
A. I believe Paul's telling the truth. And I believe my own son was telling me the truth when he came to my home and poured his heart out as to what happened to him and said mom, do something. Help us all. Help us bring this story out. Nobody believes us. The suffering that the families have gone through, I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm one of the fortunate ones that have survived with some degree of physical health intact. Emotional balance. I've seen so many of the parents and the siblings of these missing and abused children take their own life. Disappear into the drug world. Any kind of substance abuse. Broken homes. Sexual and physical abuse of other children in the family. Because of the rage that comes up. The devastation goes on and on and on from what these people have done.
Q. Noreen, I have no further questions. You have any other thing you want to say?
A. I do, I have one other thing to say.
Q. Go ahead.
A. June 13th of 1984 1 was contacted by a man in Des Moines, Iowa by the name of Sam Soda. He was a private investigator. He told me, and I taped the conversation, he told me that there was going to be a second kidnapping in Des Moines. That it would be the second weekend of August, it would be another paperboy, and that it was already in the works. And I asked him why he was telling me and he said, well, you seem like the type that would do something about it. So I took my tape recording and I went to the Des Moines Police Department. They laughed at me. They wouldn't even listen to my tape. So then I went to the TV stations and I played it for them. As a matter of record. So it was on record. The other person I told was Karen Bums with ABC 20-20, because 20-20 came to Des Moines to do our story. The second weekend in August came and, sure enough, Eugene Martin was kidnapped. From the south side of Des Moines just as the informant had said. That man still walks the streets. The Des Moines police were not all that interested in why he was giving me the information. What they did to me instead was put a gag order on me so I couldn't talk about it at that time. They had forewarning that Eugene Martin was going to be taken and they did nothing. It was a planned kidnapping just as my own son's was.
MR. DECAMP: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may stand down. All right, Mr. DeCamp.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, the next witness I would like to call is a man named Russell Nelson.
THE COURT: Mr. Nelson.
THE CLERK: Sir, would you state your full name and spell your last name, please?
THE WITNESS: Russell E. or Eric Nelson R-u-s-s-e-l-l, E-r-i-c, N-e-l-s-o-n.
THE CLERK: Russell Eric Nelson, N-e-l-s-o-n.
Called as a witness, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
BY MR. DECAMP:
Q. Russell, may I call you by your nickname?
Q. What is your nickname?
Q. Rusty Nelson. Where were you born?
A. Newman Grove, excuse me, Newman Grove, Nebraska.
Q. Where did you grow up?
A. Newman Grove, Nebraska.
Q. Until what age?
A. Just before my 18th birthday I moved to Kansas City to go to school.
Q. How old are you now?
Q. Where do you live now?
A. Well, right now Portland, Oregon.
Q. And is it true that you came here on a travel pass issued by the parole or probation authorities in Oregon?
Q. And when did you arrive here?
A. Late yesterday afternoon, yesterday evening.
Q. And did you come back here at my request to testify?
A. Pretty much between that and the fact that I wanted it brought out.
Q. I want to take you back to when you were in Nebraska. Did you ever hear of anything called the Franklin Credit Union?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Did you know people associated with it?
Q. Have you ever read a section of an affidavit or an affidavit from Police Chief Wadman -- do you know who Police Chief Wadman is?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Who is he?
A. He's police chief Omaha, Nebraska, or was.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, if I could read a section of an affidavit with your permission, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Are you aware, Rusty, that a number of the young people involved in the Franklin scandal -- have you heard of the Franklin scandal?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. A number of the young people involved there, including Paul Bonacci, Alisha Owen, Troy Boner, a number of children all identified you or a person named Rusty Nelson who was involved with Larry King and was a photographer, are you aware of that?
Q. I'm going to read you a statement that Police Chief Wadman made under oath, to the Nebraska senate committee, legislative committee, looking into matters there. Police Chief Wadman said: We had a situation where we were advised that there was a possibility of child pornography involving --no, it came in as child pornography case. What happened is that there was a photographer who was taking photographs of young women, and in the course of that set of circumstances, a mother with her daughter called and filed a complaint with the police department, and the complaint involved a situation where her daughter was approached by the photographer to be photographed, and the photographer extended an invitation to this young woman's mother to come with her. They went to studio, photographs were taken. In the course of that the mother became concerned over the photographs and some of the photographs that she observed at that photo studio and then filed a complaint of concern that this was a possible pornographic situation. We investigated -- we investigated it, found the photographer to be, you know, legitimately involved in the photography business, legitimately involved in conducting the photographs and getting signed releases and having a photography studio and so on. The only involvement is that this individual had subleased his studio or apartment from Larry King, and that was the extent of our investigation into pornography related activities involving Mr. King in any direct way. This was in response the legislature questioning him about whether you were in any way involved with Larry King. Would that be an accurate statement there by Chief Wadman?
A. I believe so.
Q. Did you in fact not function as a private photographer for Larry King?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Mr. Wadman stated the only contact you had was renting an apartment from him?
A. I didn't rent the apartment, it was given to me.
Q. Who was it given to you by?
A. Larry King. I had free reign for a lot of things for Larry's.
Q. How did you come to know Larry King?
A. I was taking pictures at a bar called Max's on 79th Street after drag shows. It was something to do that wouldn't cost me much if any money to go in to do. It was fun. One of the people there, name was Ron, trying to remember what his last name was, escapes me now. I had gotten to know pretty much everybody who was the regulars and I had said to him that, you know, I was having some financial problems and, you know, I needed to- find a decent job, this and that and the next thing. And he goes, well, I know somebody who probably be able to use a good photographer, III talk to him, see what we can set up for you the next day or two. All of a sudden here's Larry King, I had no idea who he was, this, that and the next thing. And so I went and next thing I know I'm on a private jet to Washington, D. C. And, you know, just being lavishly spent money on, clothes.
Q. How old were you at the time?
A. Oh, probably 24, 25.
A. If even that. 23 maybe. But it was an interesting ordeal. And I set in Larry's office at the credit union, set in the meetings he'd have with the people who come in private meetings. Seen him make payoffs to people. Very quietly.
Q. Did you, did you function as a photographer for Larry?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. And what did you photograph?
A. Things like the opening of Prince's Palace.
THE COURT: Sorry, the opening of what?
A. Prince's Palace, it was a restaurant, a jazz bar that he started. I went out and took pictures at his mansion on Embassy Row, some of the parties he had out there, things like that. He kept wanting me to do porn, kiddie porn, gay porn. I wanted to part of it. And he went to the extent of insisting on where I wear certain clothes, my hair had to be a certain way. They went as far as to take me out, supposedly it was Nancy Reagan's hair dresser done my hair. Permed it, everything, totally changed my appearance. And I happened to come across a man who was also a photographer for Larry. Whose appearance was almost identical to mine except he was a couple inches shorter, probably three, four inches shorter than I was and about the same build. He was at Prince's Palace, I believe on opening night. And it was just by fluke that I seen him. And what I basically come to gather was I was being run as the front man for the fall and this other person was doing the actual hard core kiddie porn, things like that. It was one of these things I tried and tried to find out who the man was. And --
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Who which man was?
A. The photographer. That I had seen. And, you know, I'd heard there was somebody passing themselves off as myself as Rusty Nelson. You know. The other thing was, is when I first went to work for Larry King I had two friends that were very, very strongly advised me against it. They wouldn't tell me what was what. They were shocked that I was even associated with him.
Q. You used a phrase when I went to work for Larry King. So then you were actually --
A. He put me to work as a waiter. And it was at Prince's Palace. So I would have a legitimate job was his idea behind it. And then --
Q. But he provided you the apartment?
A. He provided me apartment, clothes, food.
Q. Did you in fact spend a lot of time inside the Franklin Credit Union with him?
A. Oh yes.
A. Well, he had a bedroom downstairs. The office. I had pretty much free run of it a lot of times.
Q. Are you aware of the fact that your existence before the legislative committee was effectively denied by various witnesses., investigator for the state and others?
A. Oh yes, I was told to disappear.
Q. Who told you to disappear?
A. Names, I don't know actually. It was FBI agents.
Q. Why would FBI agents tell you to disappear?
A. I believe they were the ones that were also involved with this. I think that-- I haven't kept up on the case. Basically vanished since then. From what I've understood they were found to be part of it. And there were legal repercussions, you know, lost their jobs. I think they may be in prison also because of this. This is what I've heard. I haven't followed it exactly myself, believe that's true.
Q. You said you functioned as a photographer for Larry King. Did you take a lot-of pictures during that time?
A. Oh yes.
Q. What happened to the pictures?
A. Most of the time he would take the film, when we'd get done with it he'd insist on having the film. Occasionally I would slip in a roll of my own film. And get a picture of him here, there, the next place. With certain people. Some of it was just shot from the hip. You know, basically don't look exactly what you're getting but point it in that direction and get a picture of some of the people that were there. Other things I was there to take pictures and told to get specific people. And if these two people got together to make sure to get a picture of them and try not to be noticed in doing it. Basically become a wall flower. Just fade back in the woodwork, just watch who's who and what's what and don't remember anything.
Q. Where were these places where you were doing these pictures?
A. The mansion on Embassy Row. The penthouse at Twin Towers. Larry's home. The Max, there are various places.
Q. Who was at these parties?
A. Politicians, dignitaries, wealthy business people. Young people. Larry, as far as I could gather, I left when I started putting the pieces together, you know, realizing that there were two sets of books. There were very, various discrepancies in the credit union. And the fact that he obviously was into pimping gay prostitutes and children to, basically for influence purposes. Whether it be politicians or whatever. He had extreme pull in the national Republican convention. There was one day where we were on a plane and he had a problem. And he couldn't get Wadman to work it out. Couldn't get anybody here to work it out. He placed a call, directly to Ronald Reagan. And --
THE COURT: What? I didn't understand.
A. He placed a call directly to Ronald Reagan. And I set my, set next to him while it was going on. The voice that I could hear through the tele -- you know, from sitting by the telephone, was that of President Reagan.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) That sounds like a fantastic tale, don't you think?
Q. Your pictures, whatever happened to them?
A. Well, Larry King has a lot of them. From this point in time. There are 27 apple boxes full. In Oregon the State Patrol has them. I've tried and tried to get them returned. Have not been able to. There are additional pictures that were just recently taken from me that there's about at least one full apple box, probably another half more plus. That I believe the Portland police or the sheriff's department, Multnomah County in Oregon has that. They confiscated those from me when I was stopped for supposedly a broken tail light. And then arrested for parole violation about three months ago. That was on November 4th of last year. One of the pictures that may be in those is of Johnny Gosch.
Q. How would you happen to come across a Johnny Gosch picture?
A. He was pointed out to me in Portland.
Q. Fairly recently or a long time ago, when?
A. Be between probably August and October of this year, I mean this last year of 98.
Q. The pictures that were seized by Portland, Oregon State Patrol, are they still in existence?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Are you aware of the fact that I first learned of these pictures because I was contacted by the state patrol of Oregon because they found a copy of my book in your possessions when they arrested you?
A. That was Detective Rader I believe.
Q. That's correct.
A. And because of that supposedly he's left Multnomah Sheriff's Department or changed jobs, his name was on the receipt along with a Detective Pogge, I believe it was. And they've just been playing the bureaucratic pass the buck and they say, well, because he was the one behind it he has to sign it off for you to get it. Okay. I was arrested for taking pictures of a minor supposedly. Nude pictures. Something I would not do. Because, you know, make sure they are of legal age, they sign release, whenever possible I even have them notarized. Check IDs, everything. They could not find a single picture of this person that I had taken. The situation where I was at, the lawyer that I had, Ron Fishback, who was appointed to me, found out that the Franklin deal was in -- the Franklin Credit Union was involved in this. At first it didn't register to him what it was. And he was all gung ho to get me off and everything. And upon his checking into it he got with me and his attitude had totally changed night and day, somebody had obviously gotten to him. And then as far pictures and things like that, I end up having to put a complaint against him. We ended up going through, we were able to get a lawyer arranged for, I guess John DeCamp, and went on national radio. And there was a lawyer or a newspaper called the Oregon Observer that would provide me with attorney. The attorney came in, oh, yeah, he's gung ho. Well get this taken care of, no problem. Next thing I know, attorney's coming up, he says, well, we're going to take, want you to take a plea bargain because you've got all the time in, I've been in 18 and a half months on a 13 month sentence. You need to get this over with. Get it done with. Furthermore, if you do not do this and do this immediately at this next court session the district attorney has told him that they would drag this out another four to six years in court and I would remain in jail. At that point in time Judge Nely Johnson had ordered that I had been released. I believe they call it closed supervision. And I had found a job, place to live, everything. And was starting to get back into society after being incarcerated. And I just wanted to have it over with. So I took it.
Q. Going back to, going back to your time in --
A. Oh, one other thing, John.
Q. Go ahead.
A. Yeah. The attorney that they had appointed to me, I mean John was able to come up with, his name is Brian Joyce, we have not been able to locate him since last summer at all. I mean, that's just basically vanished. As far as the Portland Observer, I've been trying to call him, have not been able to, the last phone book that was published that I had seen, while I was in jail they were delivered, it wasn't even listed in the listings for a phone number any more. And it was the year before. I don I know what's actually happening in that situation. But -- you know, it's hard to say. The way this has all been unraveled.
Q. Do you know that I was called by the detective out there when they seized the pictures and they found my book there?
Q. You know that I traveled out and he gave me permission to go through some of those 27 boxes.
Q. Are you aware of that?
Q. And I presume you know what's in those boxes but --
A. Oh, I used to.
Q. I presume you know much of the material with detailed diaries --
Q. -- and pictures go back to the time when you were with Larry King, are you aware of that?
A. There should have been some in there. They still exist I would probably be surprised, but I would expect they should have been there. They were when I left Portland, I was moving back to Nebraska.
Q. How many pictures would you estimate there are? I only saw a small fraction, to be honest with you.
A. In all I probably had a few hundred of Larry King's that I had personally.
Q. I was going to say, I saw pictures then it looked to me to total somewhere between 10 and 20,000 maybe. Negatives, the pictures.
A. Oh, there would have been way more than that. There was, there should have been 108,000 slides is what I had in that van when I left Portland. As for pictures, there probably was 20, 30,000 prints and negatives.
Q. And you knew I requested the court out there preserve that evidence?
Q. So it could at some day in some way get back here to Nebraska?
A. Actually it was supposed to have been returned to you.
Q. Yeah. Well, that's never occurred. But anyway. Those pictures and your diaries are in that material, is that correct?
Q. And those diaries ?
A. Most of them.
Q. -- detailed various things dating back to when you were in Nebraska with Larry King, is that correct?
A. Yes. There should be in there along with others that I have ?
Q. These pictures would then documents or verify or prove your association, relationship with Larry King or working with him?
Q. The existence of some of the young people back then, is that correct?
A. I believe so.
Q. Did you spend a lot of time in Larry King's office?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. When I say Larry King's office ?
A. At the credit union.
Q. In Larry King's personal office or just the credit union?
A. His personal office.
Q. What were you doing there?
A. Basically I was told to sit there and look pretty. I was, the biggest thing was to keep quiet, you didn't I see anything, but if we need you to do something you're there. You know, it was, it was somewhat like an assistant, I guess. It was, I got the feeling that I was being groomed, that's what obviously it was. He, when I first met him he saw me, yeah, this, you'll be perfect for this and that and the next thing. Next thing he goes, you look like you just stepped out of Good Will. You're going to be with me you got to have decent clothes. He took me down, I believe it was Landon's, underneath the Red Lion there's a store called Landon's men's wear and brought me in and just basically bought a new set of clothes for me. And it wasn't I anything cheap at all. It was very expensive things. And, you know, he, it was basically like that from then on. We go on shopping trips, Minneapolis, New York and things like that. And he'd say, okay, this, this and that. And sometimes he'd buy the clothes, other times he'd have people that also worked with him would, basically he'd tell them, okay, here's my credit card, go out and make him look good.
And, you know, that was it. He'd go -- there's one day we went to Minneapolis and then believe it was Presbyterian church had a resort that we went out. He was trying to get some money or something like that. You know, reissue some certificates of deposit. And he'd made it a point that I was all dressed up, he said, I want you to look like a cowboy tonight. And then we went to there and then he introduced me to a few people there. He, the way I could make it out from what he was doing was basically going into these organizations, selling them certificates of deposit that were bogus. And they were making out the checks to the Franklin Credit Union to a numbered account or something I believe.
Q. You're aware of the fact that Larry King was convicted of doing those very things and he's serving a sentence in prison at this very time, right?
A. I knew he was in prison, didn't know what they actually got him convicted of.
Q. I want to talk about some other aspects of Larry King's conduct. Which were never dealt with, at least in a courtroom. That has to do with some of the things you brought up on child pornography, so on, so forth. Was he involved in having parties, for example, where children were brought in and used, or young people?
A. Oh, yes. Him and Alan Baer.
A. Alan Baer.
Q. Where were these parties?
A. Lot of times they'd be in Alan Baer's home out in Regency Park. There were some he had a catering company, trying to think. I can't remember the exact address on it. It was in north Portland. He used to bring people down to the bedroom in the Franklin Credit Union and for his -- he'd have somebody come in, they'd go downstairs for the afternoon or something for a quickie. He'd have them up at the penthouse, his house in Embassy Row. It was just basically anywhere Larry went there was party to follow him. He always had an entourage with him. It was rare to see him without at least half a dozen or dozen people dragging behind.
Q. Were there some at the Twin Towers?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Did you attend those?
A. He wanted me to. I didn't want much of any part of it. So whenever I seen something like that was happening I tried to avoid it like the plague.
Q. All of the young people identified, quote, a Rusty Nelson, described you, much shorter beard. Where would they have seen you?
A. Well, he kept me rather prominent, you know, as I was with him, always had a camera with me.
Q. Did you travel with him?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Travel where?
A. New York, Washington, D. C., Minneapolis, Chicago, you know, all over. Just wherever he wanted me. He'd call me up, might be midnight, say be ready to leave on the plane at 5:00 o'clock or 7:00 o'clock, whatever. Meet me down at Sky Harbor. He'd have a private jet waiting.
Q. Do you think people really believed that?
A. No. That's why made sure to take a couple pictures now and then.
Q. Do you recognize this --
MR. DECAMP: May I approach the bench, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Do you recognize this?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. When was the first time you saw it?
A. Well, I haven't seen it for half a dozen years plus. It was seen last night.
Q. Where did you see?
A. Your office.
Q. Do you know how I got it?
A. You got it from the sheriffs department in Nebraska City.
Q. That's correct.
A. Where they got it from I have a good idea but I'm still trying to nail it down exactly.
Q. Their information to me, as I told you, was that it was mailed to them anonymously and the sheriff in Nebraska City called me and said sounds like something of that Franklin stuff and asked me to come pick it up.
A. Yeah. And where ?
Q. Did you look at it?
A. Oh yes.
MR. DECAMP: May I open it, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) What's in here?
Q. How did these pictures, where did they come from?
A. Some of these pictures are from back in the time of the Franklin Credit Union. I worked for Larry King. For instance, this one was one that was taken at The Max. One of the Sunday night parties. I believe this was one of the male strippers that Larry had arranged for. He arranged for certain things like La Cage follies to come in, things like that. He would make special arrangements just to get these people to come in so he could have a special night or party or whatever.
Q. What about these two pictures, do you recognize them?
A. That's Larry King at, it's a black history museum in Harlem in New York City. He supposedly contributed considerably to. It was pretty much brand new building, they just dedicated it right before we had gotten there.
Q. What about this one?
A. That's inside his mansion on Embassy Row in Washington, D. C.
Q. Larry King's place?
Q. You were there?
Q. With him?
Q. For what?
A. Oh, everything from going out one day to take pictures of flower garden to going out taking pictures of parties. Going out, he'd go around the town, there would be certain people he'd stop and pick up, take them out for supper or, you know, they would go out and just short meetings, things like that. A lot of times he would dismiss the rest of the entourage, it was just Larry and myself. We'd go out sometimes, pick up person here, there, they'd get in limousine, we drive around, they talk for a little bit. Usually in hushed tones. Sometimes I could make out what was being said. Other times I couldn't. And always I was told to forget that I had seen whoever it was. And if I tried to find out who they were I was usually admonished from doing such. If I did know who they were it was basically for the most part I wasn't to address that person or I wasn't to remember that person. If I had pictures of anything like that Larry always insisted on having the film. At times when I was out in Washington occasionally I would slip an extra roll of film in, get a couple of pictures and throw it in an envelope and mail it home. So --
Q. Are there additional pictures of your association, relationship with Larry King and your trips here?
A. Okay. This is one of the private jets we flew on, two of the limousines, believe that was the Dulles airport when we went to Washington, D.C. I believe, that's inside the jet. That's inside the house again, that's Larry King again. Flower garden. Some of the pictures we took while we were out and around in limousine, Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, Washington. This is a theater near the black history museum in Harlem. I believe this was taken in New York City, it could have been Washington, D. C. Larry King, Dr. Waterman, the lady I believe was Larry's cousin, she was an attorney for him at the credit union. And the two guys were basically some of Larry's boyfriends that he kept in his entourage. Can I remember their names right offhand. There's closer picture of one of the boyfriends. These, I believe, are pictures from New York City from in the limousine. Some of the different hotels, the cathedral and things like that. We'd went, that trip he'd stopped in a jewelry store to get a very expensive watch if I remember right. It was extremely expensive Rolex.
Q. Rusty, Chief Wadman testified, of course, as you well know, that the only contact you had with Larry King was you rented an apartment from him. In his building or something like that.
Q. My question to you, did Chief Wadman have very good reason to know that was not true?
A. Oh, yes, he did.
Q. Did Chief Wadman have, go ahead, what are some of the reasons he would have had to know that was not true?
A. Larry basically had him under his thumb. There was one instance where we were downtown Omaha, one of the side streets, I had had a little bit of problem, the police had been up to my door and I was up at the Twin Towers. And they had come in to check to see if I had a photography studio. The officer just basically came to the door, that was about it, saw that I had it, I had a model release and left. And I was shook. And I had mentioned it to Larry. And he goes, well, well just take care of that. And shortly thereafter we were down on one of the side streets downtown and I was in the back seat of his white Mercedes and he pulls into the side street, man gets in, and I had been told at one time earlier that this was Chief Wadman. And Larry had handed him a small manila envelope filled with hundred dollars bills, a stack about an inch and a half, two inches thick. And basically said this will just take care of everything. And he told me then that my problems were over. And at that point I knew there was some real big problems. And I basically just, you know, shortly after that disappeared. I knew that there with two sets of books at the credit union. I knew that his accountant was pulling something. Larry had mentioned he'd paid his accountant a million dollars. And for this he could make anything look like it was right. And these were just things, bits and pieces along the way that Larry would let slip or things that I would notice. One trip to Minneapolis we stayed, I believe it was at the Ritz, and we had the presidential suite. Larry had me stay with him that night. And early in the morning a man came to the door and Larry had a briefcase, this man came in and he'd open it up and it was filled with bearer bonds.
THE COURT: What?
A. Bearer bonds. You know, pay to the order of bearer. And he had just basically given it to him. There was some cash in there. And I couldn't quite get the gist of what was what. And in that case he referred to the man as colonel and that was all, all that was said. So, you know, it's Larry had some interesting things. I believe he had some association with the Contra ordeal. That's financing it or whatever.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Rusty, you say you got disenamored or nervous or scared, they said it was time to leave, did you do anything to protect yourself, any documentation of what was doing on, did you tape anything?
A. Oh yeah. Yeah, I had. Throughout the time I was in Franklin occasionally Id have a chance to get ahold of a computer disk and copy it. Photocopies of various ledgers and things that I knew where Larry had set aside from what they should have been. And I would at times sneak a piece of paper out to the copier, get it back and, you know, take the photocopy or send it some place to where hopefully it was safe. And make tape recordings, I usually kept a little tape recorder in my pocket to make notes. And occasionally I would turn it on if I felt something was rather suspicious and then I would secrete the tape out somehow, you know, to where it would be available hopefully.
Q. What did you do with the tapes?
A. Well, I've tried to hold on to them as long as I could. Over the years I had a storage shed in Albuquerque and it was broken into. Completely emptied. I lived with a cousin, some of the stuff had been taken from me there. I'd had a roommate situation where I lost many things up in Taos, New Mexico. Some of the things I was able to told on to. Other things were taken from me by supposedly FBI agents. That has come to search my mom's house, my house. And one set of agents was the ones I mentioned earlier. About ultimately getting into trouble for being associated with it. When they came out to visit me they said you can have a lawyer but it wouldn't be wise if you had one here. Because if you bring a lawyer into questioning like this you are pretty much telling us that you're already guilty and you're just trying to fend for, fend for yourself. But if you just go into it and answer whatever we want without calling a lawyer you're better off cause you're more apt to be truthful and we know that you're not going to be lying to us. They came in, they searched the house. I live on a farm, they didn't touch any of the outside buildings, the barns, anything like that. They didn't even so much as go upstairs in my house. They tore apart the bottom part big time. They took some evidence from me at that time. I did have some other kept back.
Q. Did you hide some audio tapes?
A I had some with me. I had some that I gave to
Gary Caradori. That was very shortly before his death.
Q. Well get to that in a minute. Did you hide any at your place?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. In Nebraska?
Q. Do you know what happened to them?
A. I believe you guys actually found some.
Q. Your brother found them, didn't I he?
Q. Do you know what he did with them?
A. I think he gave them to you.
Q. Do you recognize these things right here? This your writing on here?
A. I recognize the tapes. They're tapes that I had. Some of the writing is mine.
Q. Would the tapes include audio of incidents and events and things with Larry King?
A. They very well could. I think so.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, Id like to introduce these into evidence.
THE COURT: All right. Are they ?
MR. DECAMP: I have not listened to them all. For the record, I have not listened to them. I do know there's some things I wanted to get them to the U. S. Attorney and basically they told me indirectly that Franklin was over and they wanted no part of it.
THE COURT: Well, I guess I need to know why you're offering them here.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I think they will validate that Rusty Nelson was very close to Larry King, involved with him, listened to him, observed his parties, listened to planning of things even including one, if one believes the tape, eliminating people that caused problems.
THE WITNESS: Which he does.
THE COURT: All right. The clerk will mark it. Why don't you just have the whole -- the clerk can mark the sack and that will just be Exhibit 1.
THE CLERK: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Exhibit 1 is received.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Rusty, when did you leave Nebraska?
A. Which time?
Q. When did you leave Nebraska when you left Larry King? I don't know what to even ask I guess because I want to find out when you left.
A. Okay. I left Larry King, it would have, they got raided in November. I left I believe in May or June prior to that. Cause I knew something was wrong. I wanted no part of it. Did not know who I could trust. So I just kept my mouth quiet. I went, hid out on one of the abandoned farm places that we owned. And stayed there. I kept pretty much under wraps and then I went back to see some friends in Omaha, big mistake. Next thing I know, very shortly after that here comes the FBI knocking. They just basically came right in mom's house, period. She opened the screen door, they just pushed their way in. No search warrant, nothing. Went through the place. They came back, I wasn't home, they came back a week later. I met them at mom's place. They went through mom's place again. I mean, they went through it. They insisted that I take them over to my place. And they, I wanted a search warrant. They go, well, we can get one. We are, you know, it's better if you just let us do it. And, you know, being young I didn't know what to do. And that. You get flustered and they put you on the spot, so I let them come over. Showed them what I had. And that was pretty much it. They went through the bottom part of the house. They didn't go through the upstairs. I just told them it was my personal stuff up there, they didn't bother going up there. Didn't go through the outside buildings, nothing. After that I went out and pretty much from then on I went to just living in the van because they told me at that point that I'd best just shut up and be quiet. Be very wise to not be found. That's one of their parting statements. And I became quite worried. I went from one place to the next to the next. Often I would try not to spend more than three weeks in one place. Sometimes I would start feeling comfortable and then see if I could move in. And see if I could start a life. And ultimately somebody would pop up and remind me not to bring any of this up. They went as far as on my van, I bought a used van and got it registered, everything was okay, and next thing I know I was getting pulled over. Every time I got pulled over it came back as a two door vehicle, a two door car. So the cops would always pull me over thinking that I had wrong plates. So they could basically keep track of me wherever I went in the country. Id go to the DMV, have it supposedly switch it back, next thing I know I was getting stopped again. Moved to a different state, had it changed, told them when I got it registered that this is what the situation is. Oh, yeah, we got it taken care of. Next thing I know, getting pulled over for two door car. On a van.
THE COURT: We're going to take a recess now.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: For 15 minutes.
(10:33 to 10:49 a.m., recessed.)
THE COURT: Mr. DeCamp.
MR. DECAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) You understand, Rusty, you're still under oath?
Q. You're under oath in a federal courtroom?
Q. Federal judge. I want to go back just briefly to Chief Wadman.
Q. The policeman in Omaha. Did you have any other opportunities to see him at parties or anywhere elsewhere there would have been a contact with you or Larry King or in the mix?
A. He had been there, I hadn't had personal contact with him. I'd seen him, you know, or he was pointed out as who he was to me. That way. And that's how I got to know basically who he was.
Q. So you're saying he was physically present at some of these parties?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. On more than one occasion?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. And you personally were with him in a limousine when Larry King, according to you, handed him this money?
A. I wasn't in his limousine, it was in his Mercedes, his white Mercedes.
Q. And the police chief himself physically personally told you not to worry or something like that?
Q. What did he say if you recall?
A. That was basically what the gist of it was. Larry expounded on that after he left. He was, basically he got it, he looked through, seen what was in the envelope. I hadn't seen what was in the envelope before he'd open it up. I could see what was in it. Pulled out enough to where I could see there was hundred dollar bills and a lot of them. And I knew Larry was very good about being quite generous, as he put it, to keep his affiliations. And he used to kill them with kindness. Somebody was bothering him with something or that he would just basically pad their pockets or whatever they, whatever their vice or their needs may be. Whether it be money, special gifts, whether the gifts be tangible merchandise or people. He just, he was good at arranging things and manipulating.
Q. Did he have any other methods of keeping people supporting him or not revealing some of his activities?
A. He'd get them in there, first off make them feel like they were. wanted. And, you
know, they deserved to be there and they were unwanted by the rest of the world and he
was basically their
guardian and savior. And then after you got in a while and he started to get his hooks
into you to where he was getting what he wanted, if you wanted to get away there were
some rather drastic threats made.
Q. What would those threats be?
A. He would either threaten bodily harm or in some cases actually went as far as to do away with people.
Q. Did he ever threaten you?
A. Oh, yes.
A. Basically because I didn't want to play his game.
Q. What was his game?
A. He was pretty much, as far as I could tell, into the gay prostitution bit for politicians and wealthy businessmen. And that he had little kids and gay prostitutes. And it was never put in those words but, you know, a friend, go visit such and such. Or we're going to have a party, we'd like you to come. Or you're supposed to be here. He would get extremely upset if I was to be at a party and I would arrive, for some reason have to leave all of a sudden. Or not show up at all. And that was the thing there. He had on several occasions there was references he'd made to me where he would flat out say, well, I can tell you this because there's no way to prove it. It's your word against mine. I'm an influential business person. I've got clout. You're nobody so they're not going to believe you. And --
Q. Who told you that?
A. Larry King. And ?
Q. Did you ever hear him telling somebody else that?
A. He's told various people that. That's just, it was very well known. And if it wasn't told directly by him it was --
Q. Do you know ?
A. -- through some of the other people that worked with him.
Q. Do you know if he ever carried out any of those so-called threats that you talked about?
A. I know one he told me flat you out he did, it was taken care of. This was another deal I believe through Wadman. Where it was covered up to be made to look like a suicide.
Q. Who was that?
A. Chuck Rogers, I believe, Charlie Rogers.
Q. There was a Charlie Rogers?
A. Charlie Rogers. What happened was he had his head blown off with a shotgun. They said it was a suicide. Larry flat out told me they'd had it done to him. And that it was made to look like it. And made to be covered up as, that I could be taken out the exact same wayjust as easy if I didn't go along with everything.
Q. You're telling me that Larry King told you personally face to face that he had arranged the death or killing of Charlie Rogers?
A. Yeah. And he threatened my life to boot. Since then I've had, in my travels I've had various instances where people have come up out of the blue, made references to Larry, to the credit union. I've received little notes on like windshield on my van or left on my driver's seat. Various places around. Usually it's an acorn with fire. I received one of these in El Cajon, California outside of San Diego one night. I was at a grocery store, I came back out and there was one of these on my windshield wiper.
Q. What is it?
A. It, it's usually a small piece of paper, two, three inches square and has like a doodling, looks like high school kids doodling or something like that. And it usually has an acorn with fire. That's something Larry used to do. And he told me that that basically just means drop it. Or you're going to get burned. And that's, he'd mentioned that on more than one occasion. I knew where it came from. And it was basically meant to cause to trigger an effect, you know. That straighten up and whatever. In many ways I believe it could be like Noreen mentioned, like multi personality, splitting off multi personalities. I believe Larry was into that very much. Especially with the kids that he abducted.
Q. Rusty, some of these things sound a little crazy.
A. Oh, yeah.
Q. Have you been examined by a psychiatrist?
A. Oh, yes. Dr. Beverly Brillsky.
Q. And you spent an incredible amount of time under investigation by Dr. Brillsky at the request of the state of Oregon, is that correct?
A. Eight and a half months.
Q. Is it not true that Dr. Brillsky found you completely sane and also believed your story of what you're telling right here?
Q. And for that reason you had to go to trial didn't you?
Q. I mean, you had to be, you ended up convicted?
A. Yeah, convicted of it. During this time at the Oregon state hospital in Salem, Dr. Beverly Brillsky told me in person there wasn't a thing wrong with me. The anxiety was one thing, but that could be very understandable under a situation like this. And a personality disorder is what she had to list because she had to put something. You know, she says this is something I can put on the report because I have to have something to justify my keeping you here this long. Because normally, when I was sent down there they told me to begin with I would be there three days. Okay. This was another thing finagled by Fishback. Ron Fishback, my public defender out there. There was some very interesting things. I couldn't get any cooperation hardly whatsoever from anywhere I would turn out there. Judge, whatever. While I was at the Oregon state hospital we would be allowed to go outside for an hour a day for rec. And on at least one occasion that I know of for sure I was videotaped by a car that did not belong there. Okay. The staff was notified. And they weren't able to catch the people. It was specifically of me who was videotaped as being there. I was in a part of the yard with no one else, that's where the camera was pointed to. So the other thing is on these little acorn and the fire like I mentioned before, I didn't get to that, I wanted to. In El Cajon after I received that I stayed in my van for a few minutes to gather myself back together because I was quite shaken. Pulled out of the parking lot and I hadn't drove but maybe a mile when I got shot at. And it was very, very close. Again I'd received another one of those notes up here in Oregon and I got shot at again. That was east of Eugene. That case they got the passenger's side mirror on my van. And I believe it was a red Corvette that actually what I was shot from. It took out the mirror. So, you know, there's just, coming here is really, I feel like I'm going out on a limb.
Q. So why did you come here?
A. Well, basically there's a lot of people who were put through absolute hell because ?
Q. Of your participation in some of the things with Larry or what?
A. Well, not so much my participation.
Q. Your involvement?
A. Because I couldn't, I couldn't stop what I knew or had an idea what was going on.
Q. Your parents, are you talking about?
A. What's that?
Q. Are you talking about your parents having suffered?
A. Oh yeah, they have. But moreso the people that were involved like Paul Bonacci and some of the other kids. I've had privy to a lot of things most people would not. I've always been good at listening very attentively even though it may not look like it. And often times I could pull out things that were being said and why they were being said and put the parts together and make it fit. Because of the events that were transpiring. But, you know, it's, Id like to see everything straightened out. I don't think it ever actually can be. Because the stories have, they're enormous, the whole story of Franklin ordeal and everything involved with it. It's absolutely incredible. It's hard to believe. Most people if I mentioned anything about this to anybody, oh yeah, yeah, right, yeah, blow me off. And I would show them pictures of say the private jets or some of the things that happened, it was just like, I guess that could have happened. Sometimes I would take, and there were days when we'd go from one session to the next to the next to the next to the next. And that, on a private jet. And I'd just drop post card in the mail and there would be half a dozen post cards with the same date on them all over the country coming in. But, you know, it's just, Id like to be able to not have to look over my shoulder. Id like to get a new life. It pretty much, everything that's come about because of this has ruined what life I have had. You know, I don't know what actually is possible. I may just be hanging myself out on a limb right now.
Q. Have I in any way encouraged you to tell anything here that is not absolutely the truth?
Q. Are you telling absolutely the truth?
Q. You understand you're in federal oath?
Q. In a federal courtroom?
Q. And I asked you come even though we started out adversarial, as you recall, cause I came there to look at pictures to prove Franklin --
Q. -- once with the State Patrol of Oregon?
A. And I was scared to death of having you there. That's when I was made to believe by Mr. Fishback and the rest that I should keep Mr. John DeCamp as far away from as possible from me. This is what I've been told ever since day one after the place had been raided. Was you do not get even close to this man.
Q. Did you have an opportunity to have any other pictures that were not seized by the patrol?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Where are they?
A. Some were given to the FBI, some were given to Gary Caradori, that's basically what I had given him was what made him decide that he had enough to --
Q. Where did you give them to him? Did you meet him personally?
Q. Where did you meet him?
A. Actually there were a couple of different occasions. I'd given him a little bit prior to July. Location I can't remember exactly where I gave those to him.
Q. Was it here?
A. It was in Nebraska.
Q. Did you give anything to him outside of Nebraska?
A. Shortly after the 4th of July I believe it was the day that he was killed.
Q. Where were you then?
A. Out by Chicago.
Q. What did you give him?
A. A lot of pictures. Some computer disks. Paperwork. A wide variety of everything.
Q. You're telling us under oath that you met and gave materials to Gary Caradori in Chicago that did what?
A. Well, it would have, if it would have got here, probably blew everything wide open. Instead he's now dead, along with his son.
Q. Do you remember what the pictures were?
A. Various people at parties of Larry King's. Some things they'd done, the drugs, stuff like that. Things that could possibly use to incriminate somebody or blackmail someone. That'ssomething, I've been in the photography for the art end of it. And if it, if I had something that I felt would be detrimental to somebody I always made sure that it was either kept away or destroyed. That I never wanted harm to come to anybody. From, from pictures that I had taken.
Q. From your contact with Larry King did you know if he has any assets, assets, money, property?
A. He was adamant having blind accounts, mainly in the Cayman Islands. I believe they were arranged for through contacts from his wife, I believe her parents were doctors in the Cayman Islands. And there were things that were said, I didn't quite get the gist of everything on it. I did have a list of account numbers at one time. He would buy rather pricey things at times, whether it be jewelry or such. Put money, stuff like that. And he also had a large supply of cash that he'd keep, I don't know exactly where at this point. But that was just in case something happened, he needed to get away, he always had something to go on. He mentioned that. It was the only wise thing to do. He always made himself out to be this astute businessman who was upstanding citizen, all this and that. But every once in a while in complete private just one on one with him then he would let his guard down and say something or other.
Q. Okay, Rusty, I'm about done. Just a final couple of questions. You've told a pretty incredible tale here today.
Q. Touched, essentially you've said, for example, that Larry King killed or arranged the killing of a man named Charlie Rogers, is that right?
A. Yes, that's what he told me.
Q. You said Mr. Wadman, for example, was
A. He's on the take.
Q. And was not telling the truth about you when, and was covering up your relationship with King.
Q. When the legislature was trying to find out, is that correct? You've said there's parties that Wadman and you said Alan Baer I believe, Larry King and other prominent people were at?
Q. Do you know that a girl is in prison named Alisha Owen for, I don't know, 10 or 15 years for saying she had a relationship with Mr. Wadman, saying, for example, that she went to these parties and they occurred and they occurred at the Twin Towers and Larry King and Alan Baer were there and are you aware of that?
A. Yeah. Yes, I was aware of her being in prison for that. And as far as Alisha Owen, I knew of her existence and that. As far personal contact of my own, I do not remember any at this point. If I got to look through my pictures if they still exist I may be able to find some. At one point somebody had said that I had taken some, I did not know if it was me or the other photographer that was posing as me. So --
Q. Do you have a scar on your right shoulder?
A. There might be a small indention, if I remember right. No major scar.
Q. Do you have anything you want to add? Any information at all you want to impart?
A. Well, first off, the lady that, at the, I'm trying to remember her name, that had the daughter at the Twin Towers that originally made the report and stated that I had, you know, just a small blond mustache and that, as far as I can remember I've never had a beard shorter than that except for the time that I spent in the Army. And as soon as I got out of the Army I've had a beard ever since, there's not been a day it's been off.
MR. DECAMP: May approach the witness, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Will you show me that picture? Is that one of the ones that was in this suitcase?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. And this is you back at the time when you were with Larry King?
A. I believe that was actually in the apartment.
Q. Which apartment?
A. 3B on Twin Towers.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I'd like to offer this in evidence.
THE COURT: It may be marked.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) And you identified some other pictures of Larry King in Washington for example. Is the note -
MR. DECAMP: The witness is writing something, Your Honor.
A. On the back of this as far as I can remember I put who the people are.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) And who are the people?
A. The man with the dark looks like Navy blue suit with the red tie and white shirt, that is Larry King. The man with the light blue suit behind him is a Dr. Waterman. Next to that, the lady in the colorful coat is I believe his cousin and that was his attorney at the credit union. And then the two guys were basically some of Larry's playmates.
Q. Okay. And where would this picture have been taken?
A. I believe it was in New York City or possibly Washington, D. C..
Q. And when would it have been taken?
A. Probably the spring of 1988.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I'd like to offer that into evidence.
THE COURT: It will be marked, is it Exhibit 3?
THE CLERK: Exhibit 3.
THE COURT: All right. Exhibits 2 and 3 are received.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) There were some big pictures of Larry King and some place -- do you know where they are?
Q. What is this picture?
A. That is Larry King at the black history museum, I think that's the name of it. In Harlem, it's in New York City.
Q. And you would have been with him?
A. Along with, Dr. Waterman and, let's see, trying to think. There was a bunch of us. The attorney.
Q. How would you have traveled there?
A. The private jet.
Q. Whose private jet?
A. Larry's, Larry chartered one or had one.
Q. Did you frequently travel on this jet with him?
A. Quite often.
Q. And where all did you travel, do you remember?
A. Minneapolis, Chicago, New York, DC, New Orleans.
Q. Sometimes have children on the airplane?
Q. Young people?
Q. How young?
A. There was one situation went back to Washington, D. C. he had probably 10, 12 years old.
Q. Boys, girls?
Q. And this would have been what year approximately you took this, you know?
A. That would have been the spring of 88.
MR. DECAMP: May I offer this in evidence, Your Honor?
THE COURT: About when did you say, what was the date?
THE WITNESS: Spring of 88.
THE COURT: 88.
Q. (by Mr. DeCamp) And do you recognize this picture?
THE COURT: Exhibit 4 is received.
A. That's inside his mansion at Embassy Row in Washington, D. C.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) When you say his mansion, whose mansion?
A. Larry King's.
Q. And were you in that mansion?
A. Yeah. I stayed upstairs at, my room was in straight up from the stairway.
Q. What did you do there?
A. Take pictures of everything from flower garden to parties.
Q. There were parties there?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Who attended the parties?
A. Prominent business people, very prominent high ranking government officials, politicians. The younger people. Usually what would transpire was they would have a party and then a party after the party type of deal. And that was pretty much it.
Q. I'm not sure I understand a party and then a party after the party. What's the party after the party?
A. The party after the party was more of a sex type deal. That's what Larry would --
Q. These old politicians were having sex with each other?
A. Or people that Larry would bring.
Q. Who were these people Larry brought for them?
A. Some younger people. Some of these playmates or pals that Larry had acquired. He'd have different people in different cities. Like in Minneapolis, that was very popular for him at that time was to go up to Minneapolis, The Gay 90's was a club up there that he frequented.
Q. Did you take pictures of these parties?
A. I took pictures at some of the parties, yes. When it got to where they'd do, get into sexual stuff and that I tried to avoid doing things like that though that I didn't want used against people. And didn't want to get myself tangled in to it. So I would make whatever excuse to try to avoid it whenever possible.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, may I offer this?
THE COURT: Exhibit 5 is received.
MR. DECAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) You mentioned parties, pictures, a lot of pictures apparently took for Larry?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Is that correct? When I was in Oregon during the 45 minutes I had I saw more pictures than I thought could exist in a whole museum in a lifetime. And diaries apparently written by you, is that correct?
A. Yes. I always kept notebooks. I have a full sized one similar to this numbered from I to 28 so I have every hour of the day. And for the most part I've tried to keep them accurate unless I was doing something to where it may come back and haunt me. Like providing things for Gary Caradori or things like that I would cover the diary up by doing something so if somebody picked it up to read through it they wouldn't see that I was the one who provided something and Id be tracked down.
Q. Rusty, these pictures and diaries, III be honest with you, I've seen some of the things in the limited amount of time and I have never seen anything such detail. Do you really write every day down like this?
A. Every day. I've got one sitting in my knapsack back here. Every hour. I can tell you pretty much what I've done within the hour usually within 15 minutes.
Q. These diaries dated back to when you were with Larry King?
A. Keeping diaries since high school.
Q. If these pictures and these diaries were turned over to us or to the court so we could go through them, you could go through them, would you be able to provide more information possibly to this court or --
A. Oh yes.
Q. -- or any court or U. S. Attorney on some events if they still exist?
A. Yes, I do believe.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I'm not sure how to make this request, there's any way this court could refer that to the judge out there, a county judge offered to preserve them and turn them over to us eventually to me for a case, but they've since got entangled. I'm not sure how you do it. Any way this court could get that material ordered turned over to us? To a U. S. Attorney or somebody that could look at it.
THE COURT: Well, I don't see any way. But I suppose the major concern I have is that the sole purpose of this hearing is to determine how much money would compensate Mr. Bonacci for whatever Mr. King did to him.
MR. DECAMP: I understand that, Your Honor. Just hopeful some of the other things that are of even more paramount --
THE COURT: They may be to you, you see, but for this lawsuit, this hearing, I can I say there's anything more paramount than that.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Are there any other pictures here, a picture, would you identify this one?
A. Those are the same two you submitted.
Q. Blowups of those others?
Q. Do you have other pictures other than the ones in Oregon secreted anywhere, hidden?
A. I hid them, if they still exist. I have no idea. I haven't been back.
Q. But there are other pictures?
A. Yes, there are.
Q. Would they include any of those you gave Gary Caradori?
A. I believe so. Some of them I had copies of. I had a dark room out in my farm. And some of the things I would make copies of. More than one. Photocopies of some of the things or whatever. And they were placed in hopefully protective situations to where weather and such wouldn't get to them. They're in very difficult places to --
Q. Do you recognize this picture?
Q. Identify it.
A. That's one of the private jets and limousines we threw, or we flew in on this private jet.
Q. Who's in the picture?
A. That was the captain, I believe Larry King is the one standing in back of the limousine here. As for the other people, they're already inside. And I think that was taken at Dulles airport.
Q. Dallas or Dulles?
A. Dulles, out by Washington.
Q. And when would it have been taken if you know?
A. Spring of 88. That's when the majority of this went on was in the winter and spring of 88.
MR. DECAMP: Like to offer this, Your Honor.
THE COURT: It will be Exhibit 6. It's received.
MR. DECAMP: No further questions unless you have some final comments or observation you'd like to make that you want to get to a judge in a court.
A. That's basically it from me right now. There's so much that's went on it's hard to bring everything up all in this short of a time. And copy of it all.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) When did you learn you were possibly coming here? Was it Wednesday?
A. Oh, right now?
A. I've been trying to get back for almost a couple of years now to do this. And they've hampered everything I've done.
Q. When did you learn that I had made, when did you --
A. Wednesday late afternoon.
Q. So Wednesday late afternoon?
A. Finally got through to a different parole officer to where she gave the okay. I don I know who got to her or what. But the whole attitude changed night and day. About what I, what I was, had to offer. And what I was trying to accomplish. So --
Q. And you're aware of the fact that I first learned of your existence for real by being called by the Oregon State Patrol?
A. I think that was Detective Pogge got ahold.
Q. Detective Rader was his name.
Q. And did you have a copy of this book in your possession?
A. Yeah. My brother had overnighted me a copy when I was in San Diego.
Q. And was looking in there that he identified your name?
Q. As, is that correct?
A. Yes. As associated with this. And at that point everything just went, they clamped down on me so hard. They put me in solitary cell. I mean, it was just one thing to the other. They would come in and either send me to the doctor or have somebody come in to talk to me. And they tell me, okay, you did this, you did that, and they'd just drill me, whatever I had supposedly done. And then they'd send me back to my cell and let me sit. Or they'd get you in and the doctor would put you on medication, they pushed psychotic drugs unbelievable, way more than what should have been for depression, whatever else. They wanted everybody in that unit or whatever unit I've been in to get in that med line every time so they could get them dependent on the drugs. You could tell that you were getting ready to go to court if you had anything that was controversial, people had things that were controversial or trying to fight their cases, they could discontinue their drugs or for some reason screw up the orders a day, two, three days ahead of time. And then they would be totally out of balance when they went to court. You know, it was pressure tactics that were, you know, unbelievable. I'd never been in any kind of a situation like that. I have no idea what to expect. I've been just flabbergasted.
MR. DECAMP: Okay. I have no further questions, Your Honor. Like to offer a copy of this book since it was the thing that generated.
THE COURT: It will be Exhibit 7. It's received. Did you ever have any association with Paul Bonacci?
THE WITNESS: I knew who he was.
THE COURT: I'm sorry?
THE WITNESS: I knew who he was.
THE COURT: How did you know who he was?
THE WITNESS: Through Larry King.
THE COURT: Through Larry King.
THE WITNESS: Larry King.
THE COURT: Larry King talk about him?
THE WITNESS: Oh yeah.
THE COURT: What did he say?
THE WITNESS: He wanted me to take pictures of Paul, various other children or various other people.
THE COURT: Did he say why?
THE WITNESS: In compromising position, you know, sexual type things. Actually Larry wanted me to do a gay porn and kiddie porn for him and he pushed that so hard. And he, you know, pointed out Paul and tried to get things in that case. You know, he wanted me to go with Paul and that. I have no inclination towards being homosexual, anything like that. I avoided wherever possible that I could.
THE COURT: Did you take any pictures of Paul Bonacci as far as you know?
THE WITNESS: I may have. I may have. I don't, you know, without going through, I have got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pictures in 20 years, it's hard to keep track of just one or two.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you very much. You may stand down, sir.
THE WITNESS: Appreciate it.
THE COURT: Okay. Mr. DeCamp?
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, the next witness I'd want to call is Paul Bonacci.
THE COURT: All right.
THE CLERK: Sir, would you state your full name and spell your last name, please?
THE WITNESS: Paul Anthony Bonacci, B-o-n-a-c-c-i.
THE CLERK: Paul Anthony Bonacci, B-o-n-a-c-c-i.
PAUL BONACCI, Called as a witness, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DECAMP:
Q. Paul, I had originally planned to just go through detail of everything in the petition. For the purposes, as I understand it, of this hearing all that is presumed to be true.
MR. DECAMP: Is that correct, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes, that's right. That's acceptable.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) So for my purposes today I just want to briefly talk to you about how your life has been impacted, changed if you would, by Larry King. And all the things that he involved you in as a young boy. Go ahead.
A. Well, when I first met Larry King and stuff I had already been abused by some other people. But the one thing that I can remember a lot, Larry King, the most was the fact of all the threats that he used to use to try to keep all us kids in.
THE COURT: Sorry, didn't understand.
A. All he, Larry King, after I first met him and stuff he --
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Speak slowly and clearly, Paul.
A. He was very controlling. And he would use threats of, he was always threatening you if you told anybody that you would wind up dead. Several times he told us that we'd end up dead of overdose and stuff, even though a lot of the drugs people were, you know, that he was threatening to overdose me with I wouldn't even go around. I mean, I got, he was one that supplied me with most of the drugs I did, which was mainly just like speed and uppers and downers and stuff. After a while that's how I got up in the morning, how I went to bed at night, was because of the drugs and stuff. And that was mainly to mask the abuse that I was going through. And Larry King took us on a lot of trips. I mean, I can't even begin to number how many trips I went on. With Larry King to Washington, D. C., to Kansas City, Chicago, up into Minnesota and Los Angeles. He always insisted when we went places he was always concerned about the way we were dressed a lot of times. If we weren't dressed properly he would make us, he would send us out with Larry The Kid or with one of the other older guys and stuff to a store and they would be given either cash or credit cards and stuff to where they were, purchase whatever he wanted us to wear. And at his parties, which we a lot of his parties were at the Twin Towers, or his house, or in Washington, D. C., any city we're in he had us go to a lot of parties. He would bring guys in and stuff that he would tell us that we supposed to, what we were supposed to do with them. And we went in and did what we were told to do. And he, every, if anyone ever tried to get out of line or tried to leave or said they were going to tell anybody or stuff he would, I got, he would threaten us with the fact that, you know, we could wind up dead or we'd end up in jail. That was his big threat was, well, you will be charged with something that you didn't do or I can get anybody to say anything I want for the right amount of money. And he also used the fact that he had, he was close associate or good friend with Alan Baer and also with Police Chief Wadman. And I had already met, you know, I'd met Alan Baer through on the streets and stuff. But he would use the fact that Alan Baer had more contacts than he did even with the fact that Alan Baer had more legitimate money, he liked to put it. It wasn't money that could be documented and nobody could question it. And with Wadman he would basically use that as a threat that, you know, I could have you killed or anything could happen to you and, you know, you'll just disappear like all the others have. And I know at that, in 83 my stepfather died and I had contacted both Alan Baer and Larry King and told them I wanted no more to do with the parties and with any of it. And I told them, you know, they could kill me, and that would be over with and stuff. In fact, a day or two later, which can be testified to by my mother, and my brothers and stuff, we were at my grandmother's house down on about 29th and Park Avenue. And a car drove by and somebody yelled something that nobody else understood, but I did. And our car was shot. And I was standing right by the car, it went into the door that was maybe a foot or two right next to me. And at first everybody thought it was a, you know, somebody thrown a firecracker, it was just around the 4th of July. And, but I knew because I had seen the guy's face and it was a guy that we called Larry The Kid. And the window was busted on the car. And I saw the bullet, I was the first one to see the bullet hole. My mom and them called the police. And at that time and stuff we, I just let it go as to the fact that it could have been, I didn't say possibly who it was at all because that was a message to me that I had better keep my mouth shut that, you know, I would definitely be killed. And on a lot of the trips that he took us on and stuff he had us, I mean, I met some people that I don't feel comfortable telling their name because I don't want to --
Q. Are you still scared?
Q. And you asked me not to question you about family or any of these influence things in your life because you don't want anybody injured, is that right?
Q. Do you still have multiple personalities?
A. Yes, I do. I will always probably have both the personalities. I mean, I can, it's easy to live with now because I don I have any traumatic things to cause me to switch personalities which would really do me a whole lot of harm. But I know that even with my affiliation with Larry King and stuff, I know for a fact now to myself that he knew about the MPD and also was in touch with and was one of my controllers.
Q. You've had three separate psychiatrists examine you, is that correct?
Q. And were each of these psychiatrists hired and paid for by the State of Nebraska or one of subdivisions of the State of Nebraska?
Q. And were they hired to determine whether you really did or did not have multiple personalities?
A. The first psychiatrist was Dr. Beverley Mead and he first was involved when I first went to jail. Because at that time and stuff they said that I was probably under a lot of anxiety and stuff because of the charge and stuff. And he examined me and I don I even remember the first time he examined me, I don I remember until about the fourth or fifth time he examined me. Because every time he examined me until one time he had me just kind of relax and just, and it was the first time it came out while he was out, or I was out, the other personalities were not, he told me that I had MPD and stuff. This is like after he talked to me four or five times and stuff and said in talking to me and stuff, I came to that time I was shocked about where I was at. Because up until that point I hadn't even realized I was in jail as Paul, I was always another personality that had handled everything and stuff. This was like about three to four weeks after I'd been arrested and I didn't even, I hadn't gone, I mean, I had no idea about any of it. And, but, he was the one that first diagnosed me with the MPD. And
Q. Can you stop just a minute?
Q. I'm not talking to Paul, am I?
Q. Who am I talking to?
A. I used to be known as Wesley but now I'm called Tony.
THE COURT: I'm sorry, you're who?
A. Used to be Wesley, now my name is Tony.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Why is Wesley here?
A. Because I figure it's best if I tell it because lot of things Paul just doesn't want to have to go through a lot of times.
A. I'm having a hard time because I knew everything that was going on, and I failed to stop it.
Q. You failed to stop it, Wesley?
Q. Right? Do you remember Dr. Mead?
Q. Dr. Mead was the first psychiatrist you saw, wasn't he?
Q. Dr. Mead on behalf of the police department examined you, is that correct?
A. Yes. He said that the police wanted to take me over to St. Joseph Hospital where they could have me placed under hypnosis to see if everything that I was saying, so they could get out the details a little bit more easily.
Q. But before you ever went under any hypnosis is it not true that you had repeatedly told your story, the story of Larry King, of Franklin, of Alan Baer, the abuse and everything from the beginning, is that true?
A. Yeah. First in 1986 it was, I think May 20, no, it was 8th, April, I believe around the first of the month and stuff of 1986 and stuff I had gotten contacted by Northwest High School that I had, because I had missed approximately 80 days that semester. And they wanted to know if I was going to drop out of school. And they requested that I come in to the school and have a meeting with the vice principal and my assistant, my counselor, Dr. Wiedemeyer, actually Wiedemeyer, and also lady named Diane Zipay who was, at that time and stuff, she was a district counselor for OPS schools. And the three of them talked to me briefly and told me that my ex-girlfriend at that time and stuff, Nancy Owens, not related to Alisha Owen at all, not even the same spelling of the name, but Nancy Owen had spilled her guts to her mother. And her mother contacted the school because I had toldAlisha --not Alisha Owen, Nancy Owen, easy to get those the two names confused -- but Nancy Owen that what -- because we were dating and this kind of stuff, I had informed her about the sexual abuse that I had gone through. And I had mentioned that if it ever came out and stuff I'd be dead because of the, because of the people who were involved were, had a lot of -- trying to think of the word -- a lot of, they were really public people in Omaha. And they also had a lot of money. And it was at that time and stuff that my counselor asked me if I ever --when I went in for the meeting and stuff, he asked me had I ever been abused. And at that point and stuff I asked my mother to leave the room. Cause she was there too. I asked her to leave the room. And I told the counselors in essence everything that, most of the stuff that had happened and who had abused me. At that point they stopped it, they called the Omaha Police Department, who had already been contacted in advance of that I was told because they said they were waiting to speak with me. And they sent down two detectives, plainclothesed detectives and stuff. Who spent a period of almost two hours at the school in the principal's office, or vice principal's office at that time,now he's principal, James Bell, who was the vice principal at that time, and they questioned me. And at that time I told them about just about everybody who had abused me. I named all the names and then they -- kind of got scared because one of the detectives kind of looked familiar but hadn't said a word up until he asked me a question and stuff. As soon as I heard his voice, that it's, basically scared me to death because at that point I realized that he was one of the police officers that I had seen at a lot of the parties with Alan Baer and Larry King at the Twin Towers. And at that point I panicked and I made up a story that I can I believe I made up, that I had had a gun and I was down in the woods down by my house and I had attempted, thought about shooting myself, then I decided I wasn't going to. At that point they stopped it and had me taken the Nebraska Psychiatric Institute where I stayed for 38 days And they, you know, supposedly because I was suicidal, which wasn't the truth, I was just scared to death that if word got back to Alan Baer or Larry King that I was as much as a dead man. My life wasn't worth anything at that point. I figured if I made like I'm crazy or something maybe they'll just go away and leave me alone. And for the most part they did. They tried to erase they even came to the school.
Q. Okay. Let me just stop you there. You heard Noreen Gosch testify this morning, right?
Q. Do you remember meeting her in prison?
A. I remember meeting her, yeah.
Q. Who would have been the personalities that would have talked to Noreen Gosch?
A. That would have been, I believe at that time and stuff, one that was called Mikey.
Q. That's what I thought.
A. And he's integrated and stuff and I have all his memories.
Q. You believe Mikey's integrated?
Q. You really believe that?
Q. Okay. Dr. Mead, after he examined you, told the courts and the legislature, as I recall, and he testified before the legislature with you and I think that's part of your exhibits, part of your pleadings, that you had multiple personalities but that he believed your story. Is that correct?
Q. Then you were examined by another psychiatrist ordered by the courts I believe?
A. Yeah. That was, she was from Immanuel, her mind slips me. Doc -- Stark? Dr. Stark or something like that, I'm not positive.
Q. Do you remember that examination?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Do you remember what the results were there?
A. She concluded just as Dr. Mead did that I had multiple personality disorder and everything. They basically told me everything I said was true that I told her.
Q. Did you then have another examination by another doctor?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Was that one paid for and ordered by the legislature of the State of Nebraska?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Do you remember the name of that doctor?
A. Dr. Densen-Gerber.
Q. And it's my recollection, you correct me if I'm wrong, that you had extensive interviews with Dr. Densen-Gerber, is that correct?
A. Yeah. She came down and started several, I don't remember how it was, several hours, she went through many different personalities. And she, I don't know why she did it, but she had attempted to, several times and stuff, to have me say things that weren't true. But I corrected her every time because I wanted it to be known that, you know, what the truth was. And I found out later she did that on purpose, I believe to try and trip me up to see if I was telling a story if I was just making stuff up.
Q. Do you remember the conclusions she gave?
A. Yes, she came up with the same conclusion the other two psychiatrists had come up with.
Q. They believed you had been turned into multiple personalities as a result of sexual and other types of abuse, is that correct?
Q. And that this had occurred at the hands of particularly Larry King and some of the other people you've named, is that correct?
Q. I want to go back to the Johnny Gosch story. Who would be the best person that could tell me about that?
Q. And you believe Wesley can today because Mikey is integrated, is that right?
Q. Did you participate in the kidnapping of Johnny Gosch?
Q. Tell us about it.
A. It was through a guy named Emilio that I had met several years before while my family lived in Carter Lake, which I had met him down in, there's a, I don I even know what the name of that park is, I think might be Levi Carter, not really important, it's between the pond and big actual lake and stuff. I met Emilio through a kid that I had met down at the park and stuff. His name was Mike, or we called him Mikey too sometimes, but mainly Mike. He was approximately my age. And he told me about his friend and stuff. And when they, in talking to me and stuff they found out I had been abused and stuff, Mike had and stuff, he went, told Emilio. It was at this point Emilio started to begin to use me to go to these, not really parties, but just like, like child pornography, that's what his main thing was was making child porn. That's how he basically supported himself. And it was shortly after that that they asked me to go on a trip with them to Des Moines. And I believe that was around Labor, September, we left on September 4th of 82. And we went to Des Moines. We stayed there in a hotel which 1, all I know is it was on the, on the west side of Des Moines. And we, they went through what they were going to do. At first I didn't know what they were there for. The first thing, this one guy came in and says this is the one. And I at that point still had no clue as to what they were talking about and stuff. They said that, you know, they were going to take this kid, they were going to kidnap him and stuff. And I was a little bit upset. And I said that I wasn't wanting to go along with them. And I'm going to try to tell this in the best order that I can so that it's complete and put all the personalities together because I think in the past it's all been broken up. And I think what I need to do is put it altogether finally. And I can do that, the other personalities couldn't. What happened was when they took us to Des Moines, after found out, it was still early in the afternoon and stuff.
Q. Who are we talking to?
A. Still Wesley. And it was still early in the afternoon and stuff by the time we got there.
This guy said this is the one they wanted and stuff. I as, I don ~ remember which personality it was, didn't want anything to do with it. Emilio took me for a little drive, stuck a gun in my head on a dirt road and told me I either did this or he was going to blow my brains out right there and then. At that point I agreed to go along with whatever, you know, they 'want and stuff. Went back to the hotel. That's where Tony, who is another guy, not me, he was an older guy and stuff. He had a lot of pock marks on his face, kind of skinny. He also can pose as a woman, which he has done on numerous occasions. He or Tony, myself, and Mike went into the other hotel room while Emilio, this guy named Sam and another guy talked in the hotel room. And were discussing, I guess, the details of how things were going to go down. Later on brought all three of us back in, Tony, myself and Mike, and they put up some chairs like it would be a car, and driving, and they said, this is how we're going to do it. You and Mike will be in the back seat when we pull up to where this kid's at and stuff, we're going to ask him a question.
We're going to go around the block. Which they did. Then they came back and stuff and they had myself and Mike out of the car, or Mike was in the car, I was out of the car and stuff. I went up to him, asked him a question. And at that point he was close enough tothe car where Tony had pulled up in a van and they pushed him in the car, and they had a rag with chloroform in the bag that they had us stick over his face. And then put it back in the bag after he was out. After that point they told all three of us to stay down in the back seat so nobody could see us. I think it was also so we couldn't see out to see where we were at. And at that point we drove several miles and stuff, we met up with a station wagon and a van several times and stuff. Which I know Tony was driving one of them, and this other guy, I believe name was Sam was driving the other. Several times they had us switch vehicles with Johnny and stuff. And eventually we ended up in the back of the van, a white van. And we drove from there, the car that had originally taken Johnny and drove east toward, they said that he was going to drive east toward like Chicago. And the station wagon that we transferred him into and stuff, they were going to have it driving going down south so that if anybody had seen anything and stuff they'd have it going out in different directions. But what they did was out in the country where there was nothing but corn fields and stuff where you couldn't see anything, they stopped and transferred him into the van. That's why nobody would ever see the actual vehicle that was going west toward Omaha. And we did stop, we did go through Council Bluffs because they made us stop at a place that I kind of know kind of well and stuff over in Council Bluffs. It was, at the time I believe it was called The Joker Lounge, which strangely enough is owned by, was owned by my, one of my uncles. And they went in, they just went in to get some drinks. And nothing that went on there. They left us out in the car. But that's when I peeked my head out. Cause they had a curtain in the van where you couldn't see out the front and they had curtains on the side on the side windows. It didn't have windows on the back but it had some side windows on the side too. I peeked out, that's when I seen The Joker Lounge and I recognized it because of the fact my uncle owned it. And I'm not sure if it was Fat Jacks or The Joker at that time, they've changed so many times. But then we drove up to Sioux City, Iowa. Which is where we stayed for the night. And the next day they took me back to Omaha. And --
Q. What happened that night?
A. That night at first Emilio and this couple other guys went into town to drink. And they left me, Mike and Johnny in a room that had no windows on it. That they had locked from the outside of the room and stuff. They lock us all three in this room. And that night when they got back they ordered me and Mike to do some things with, sexual things with Johnny. And they filmed it so that they could sell the film or whatever they were going to do with it. And then I know that they took me, the next day they took me back home. And then a couple of months later I got a chance to take a trip out to Colorado. And that's where I seen Johnny Gosch the second time. And at that point he was staying with a guy that I only knew as the colonel. And it was a kind of a ranch house but it was out, had a raised floor, underneath there was a space that had been dug out. And that's where they kept some of the kids at and stuff when they caused trouble or were bad. And they had a lot of lookouts on this road and stuff. If anyone was to even get close to the place that the kids could be taken up into the hills before anybody could ever get there. It was also the same place that in 92 when 1, 1992 or early 93 when I got out of prison where America's Most Wanted had taken myself and Roy Stephens to Colorado and stuff to see if I could find any of these places where they had taken us. And I had no idea that Roy had been in that same area. He'd never found the house. He had found elephant rock and some other places that stood out to, you know, would have stood out to anybody and stuff that had been in this house, because it's visible from the house. And he had been down that road. But I didn't find the main road that he, that you would think most people would find, because when they took us to this house they always took us up, I guess up the road and stuff where we have to take an old raggedy bridge across I believe the Arkansas River and alongside the river. And when they took us out there I was shocked, because as we were going on this road a guy popped out of the middle of nowhere with a radio, which I'm sure they could tell you that, this guy popped out and he had a radio and stuff. And I have never told anybody up to this time and stuff, but that's one of the guys who was involved.
Q. Involved in the kidnapping?
A. Involved in the kidnapping.
Q. Did you know who he was?
A. I never knew his name. All I know he was close friend with the Colonel and arranged for auctions. And shortly, I mean, 1, shortly after we drove past him he went back up into the woods I believe, made some calls. And that's why we wouldn't have found nothing in that town. I think they knew in advance that we were there because we'd stayed in some hotels and stuff going out there and stuff. That I believe that they knew we were in the area and they hightailed it out. Because when we went to the other road that I had recognized and stuff we stopped at this guy's house who was a mailman. And shortly after we left his house he was hightailing it down to the trailer park which I had talked about. And I don't know, we don I know what happened because we just seen his mail truck going down to the trailer park and it wasn't a mail run because it was way too late for that.
Q. Okay, I'm going to interrupt you here because I know we probably want to get to lunch here. I have just one more witness, might take probably three to five minutes, I'd like to ask just a couple final questions. Alisha Owen, do you know her?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Do you know Robert Wadman?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Do you know Alan Baer?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Do you know Larry King?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Were all those people at these parties that you've heard described here today?
A. Yes, they were.
Q. Where were the parties?
A. Like I stated, a lot of them were at the Twin Towers. In various apartments and penthouses. Some were at a farm house. Some were actually at Larry King's house. Which was on a, all I know it had a big hill on it. It was nice, nice house and stuff. Also down in Washington, D. C. We had parties in Kansas City, couple of parties in some place in New York.
Q. What was the nature of these parties?
A. A lot of the parties when we went to, that we went to and stuff, the ones in the Twin Towers were basically for one reason. And that was for sex.
Q. Sex between who?
A. There was sex between adult men and some other adult men but most of it had to do with young boys and young girls.
Q. Young boys and young girls with each other or with older folks?
A. With the older folks. Also some of the parties, there was some parties above The French Cafe that they would bring people in and stuff that were from out of town. Those were specifically for sex with minors. Also in Washington, D. C. there were, there was also parties like Rusty had already talked about where there was parties after a party. Where they would have a party where they would have a legitimate party with like some politicians, businessmen. And a lot of them never knew about what happened at the after, you know, the party afterwards and stuff. Like in Washington, D. C. there was a lot of parties where they would be senators and congressmen who had nothing to do with the sexual stuff. But there was some senators and congressmen who stayed for the parties afterwards. And one person that I'm not afraid to talk about because his, because Larry King always said him and this guy were on the opposite ends of the field because this guy was a Democrat and Larry King was a Republican. That's a known fact and stuff. And this guy, every time I see him on TV and stuff, my wife knows my hatred for him. Because every time I see him and stuff it disgusts me because it's --his name is Barney Frank.
Q. Did you have relationships with him?
A. In Washington, D. C. And also I was sent to a house, I believe it was in Massachusetts in Boston where I believe it was his house because there's pictures on the wall that, with him and with different people and stuff. And that he had met I guess. But it was in his basement.
THE COURT: Mr. DeCamp, sorry, maybe we better break for lunch.
MR. DECAMP: Want to do it that way? Otherwise 15 minutes we can be done. We can break for lunch, whatever you say.
THE COURT: I think we better break for lunch. Can we come back, what, 1:00 o'clock?
MR. DECAMP: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Be in recess till 1:00.
(12:04 to 1:00 p.m., recessed.)
THE COURT: Mr. DeCamp.
MR. DECAMP: Yes, Your Honor. Your Honor, I think probably take 10, 12 minutes with this witness, I have one other, then we should be done.
THE COURT: Very well.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Do you understand you're still under oath?
Q. Okay. I just want to review a couple of the incidents of your life as you've laid out in your petition and some of the things that have been discussed here today. It's impossible for us to deal with anything more than just some very limited areas. But back to the Johnny Gosch incident. How was Johnny Gosch, how was this boy selected or was he selected specifically?
A. Well, the men came into the room, they had actually a couple of pictures, they had about five different pictures and stuff. They had pictures of Johnny and they also had pictures of other boys and stuff too. And the guy that I believe was Sam pointed at the one of Johnny and said this is the one. How he was selected I'm not exactly sure, but I know that they had several different photographs. And I know of the photographs, the pictures of the boys and stuff they had, one was of Johnny and stuff. He was carrying a paper sack with him on one of the pictures that I seen for sure. I'm not exactly sure how he was chosen or, you know. I know a lot of it had to do with the fact of the way he looked. Because the color of his hair and his eyes and everything. It could make them more money I guess. I --
Q. So it was not a random --
Q. -- pick any kid, it was a specific targeted kid?
Q. And he was identified the night before?
Q. And you were with the people that did this?
Q. And then you were used the next morning as a young, what, was one to lure him or something?
A. It was kind of like a, I don't know exactly what I was called, it was just more like I was, me and Mike were kind of used as bait. We were to -- because it's like when you see other kids and stuff you don't normally run. I mean, if an adult and stuff comes up and started asking a kid questions and stuff often times kids will run and get scared and stuff. But kids your own age are talking to you and stuff you normally aren't frightened by them. So we were there to, I guess you could say lure him or get him close enough to the car where we could get him in.
Q. Okay. You in an eight or nine day deposition we did discussed Alisha Owen, discussed a lot of personalities, and discussed Robert Wadman. And you had made a claim earlier under oath, as I recall, that you had seen Alisha Owen with Robert Wadman, is that correct?
Q. And you were in fact charged with perjury because you made that statement to a grand jury, is that correct?
Q. And those charges were dismissed against you, weren't they?
Q. I'm going to ask you again today, you're under oath again, you're in a federal courtroom, did you ever see Robert Wadman with Alisha Owen?
A. Yes, I did. As I started to state earlier and stuff, I had seen them a couple of times and stuff, like I said, at the farm house and also at an apartment in the Twin Towers. And like I said, the one time in Twin Towers I walked in on them. And actually caught them in bed together.
Q. So you're saying you personally, Paul Bonacci, at the Twin Towers saw Police Chief Robert Wadman in bed with a girl we've come to know as Alisha Owen, is that correct?
Q. Absolutely your certain?
A. One hundred percent.
Q. Did you see him with her in any other occasion in a compromising position?
A. Like I said, mainly just at the Twin Towers and stuff. And also at the farm house I seen them a couple of times together. And I'm not sure I seen them any other times besides that. I know some other personalities may have, you know, said the one time happened different times or stuff, it was just one occasion that they were actually in bed together that I seen them.
Q. And you say that knowing that Alisha Owen is in prison for saying that same thing?
Q. Are you lying?
Q. You're sure?
A. I'm positive.
Q. And you know you're under oath?
A. Yes. I'm as positive as I'm sitting here today and stuff that I know I'm one hundred percent sure that it was Robert Wadman and Alisha Owen.
Q. Did you know Alisha Owen?
A. I knew of her. I never really could stand her.
Q. You and other young people got to know each other somewhat during this period of time you went to these parties?
Q. How many of you were there involved in this?
A. it's kind of hard to say. Because I was in it probably longer than most of the young people that were involved. A lot of the young people were involved for a couple of years. Whereas I was involved from the early, either the late 70s, very early 80s up until even 86, 87. Even though I wasn't doing anything at that time and stuff, I was still around them enough to, you know, for photo ops or whatever Larry King wanted, enough to try to keep myself alive.
THE COURT: But for how long, from?
A. From, like I said, about the early 80s till 87, 88. And there were perhaps over that time period and stuff, I'm not just talking about kids from Omaha, and from Boys Town, cause there were several kids from Boys Town brought by bus, you know, brought in on vans and stuff. But also from the other areas where we went to and stuff on scavenger hunts for Larry, it was for Larry King. There's probably a couple of hundred kids. And as, from probably anywhere from 16 down to about 8, maybe some younger.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) You filed this lawsuit eight or nine years ago, is that correct?
Q. Alan Baer originally was one of the defendants, is that correct?
Q. Did Alan Baer ever have any contact with you after the lawsuit was filed?
A. He did in several different ways. Even after I got out of prison he's contacted me one time.
Q. What was the contact?
A. Well, in prison and stuff there was a guy in there named Bently Buckner who when I first got there he told me that he had been in contact with Alan. And said that he, Alan had told him to make sure I was okay and take care of me while I was there. Make sure nothing happened to me. And that had a lot to do with the fact there was a lot of pressure from some sources and stuff at that time that anything happened to me it would look pretty bad for him, too many people had already been ending up dead or something and I was just one that I, he wanted to make sure that I was taken care of
Q. Now, you were in prison for what?
A. I was in prison for three counts of sexual assault on a child. And what that extended to is that I got arrested for, the charge I got arrested on was for allegedly touching a 13 year old boy on the outside of his pants while I was supposed to be asleep.
Q. And your sentence for that was what?
A. I got a zero to five sentence, actually five years. I did all of the time that I was supposed to do.
Q. You were originally granted parole, weren't you, and then --
Q. -- an editorial came out in the World-Herald revoke, or telling them to revoke it and they did?
A. October 21st, 19911 went before the parole board, they voted unanimously at that time five to 0 to give me parole. And according, you know, we had a parole plan where I would be set up, I would be living with a minister in Lincoln and working for Ed Weaver, was what was set up for me at that time. And 10 days later before I ever got out of the prison the pastor I was supposed to be staying with was going to be out of a town for about a week or so so they couldn't let me go that day. But before I ever got out the World-Herald ran some pretty mean editorials and stuff saying that if I got out I'd be in touch with this LaRouche group which I won't have anything to do with because my brother ran away with one of them -- not my brother, my sister-in-law ran away with one of them. And so I had nothing to do with them really at that time. And it was after that Halloween, of all times, and stuff, of 91, October 31st, they revoked the parole and never gave a reason why. And that was pretty hard thing for me at that time.
Q. Who was the first person you called after you were arrested?
A. First person I called after I was arrested was Alan Baer.
Q. Why did you call him?
A. Well, because in the past whenever I had been arrested 1, 1 mean, I had been picked up by the police, never actually put into jail. He told me if I ever got in trouble with the law to call him. That he would arrange it so I could get out. And so I did. And I never really got ahold of him very well. But another inmate that knew Alan Baer also kept calling him for me. Basically I was wanting to tell him at the time and stuff what I had said a couple of days before about, you know, cause -- the Wednesday before I got arrested he asked me, actually another personality, he didn't know it was, really I think he knew it was me, but he was one of the, going with a guy, supposedly one of my personalities, supposedly my brother, of all things, that he was going to have me get other young kids for his parties. And that we had, I told him, pardon my language, to go F himself and that I'd rather die before I'd do that again. And two days later I end up in jail.
Q. Were there any other personalities, not personalities like in yourself but other prominent people at these parties that you particularly remember? You had mentioned one, Alisha mentioned one, a name of Carlson.
A. Theodore Carlson, he was a judge in Omaha.
Q. He was at these parties?
A. He was at a couple of the parties. I think, I believe most of the time I saw him wasn't at parties at the Twin Towers, it was mostly like at I want to say The French Cafe. And, I mean, that's where I'm getting a picture in my head of seeing him at. And down in, I think there's a basement or something, but also up in like a loft or apartment upstairs. But at a lot of the parties I heard enough from other kids about him. And he preferred young girls.
Q. Alisha said that and she went to prison for it. Are you telling the truth?
Q. The final question Id like to ask you, how does this whole scene, mix you've been involved in for so many years impacted or affected your life or changed your life?
A. Totally screwed up my life.
Q. Who am I talking to now?
Q. Okay. Go ahead.
A. For one thing I would have never been arrested for something that, something that I totally find disgusting. I would have never been at NPI, which actually caused me to have to give up my military career. Because i[sic] had planned all my life to join the Army and just spend my whole life in the military. I had spent four years in ROTC in high school and stuff just dreaming of getting in the military and rising up through the ranks and one day being somebody. And then having all that dashed because I was in a psychiatric hospital for something that wasn't even true. And the threats that he's made on my life and stuff is like to this day I'm scared for my family. Not a day goes by that I haven't prayed, asked God to protect my family. Because I know that this man has caused people to be killed. Friend of mine to be killed. He's caused a lot of, I can't even hardly sleep at night, which my wife can tell you that I hardly sleep at night any more. I never have. I mean, I have bad dreams and stuff which I don't even tell her about because it's like I don't want to put her through the same hell I've gone through all my life. It's hard for me to, it was hard for me to have relationships for a long time. I mean, I was afraid that, you know, I'd find somebody I really cared about and loved and stuff, somebody would come along and take them away. It's been hard for me to try and keep a job because of the MPD.
Q. MPD meaning?
A. Multiple personality disorders. Cause I get work, just like I don't know what happens. I love, I mean, I, I'm a hard worker, I love work and everybody that I work for and stuff just, you know, always has nothing but good to say about me. It's just that I have, I, Ijust quit. I don't know why. And, I mean, it's not a good thing to always have to be looking over your shoulder and stuff to see if somebody's back there and stuff following you. Sometimes I've done that a lot. When I got out of prison I was, I was terrified that they were going to bump me off. I mean, the first night I was out of prison for about a week I was so jumpy, I heard the ceiling creaking on the house and stuff on the trailer I thought there was a sniper up on the roof going to shoot me through the bedroom window. And even for years after that stuff, like every time I went to my car try to turn it on and stuff I always have to look everywhere, look under the seat, look under the car and stuff, make sure there's no bombs under my car. I always have to watch who I was around and stuff because it's like I was always afraid somebody would recognize me. And go into the store and stuff and people recognize you is, and then associate you as being a supposed pedophile or something like that when you know for a fact that you're not. You don't have any attraction for that at all and stuff. And the fact that I've never had any, I mean, I've never done this for, I never put any lawsuits on these people. I never expect to get, I never expected at all to get a penny. I was, it's always like I had planned anything that was ever settlement and stuff even for my portion was going to help kids who were used.
Q. In fact, that's part of the agreement, wasn't it, that I agreed to represent you, that you would donate anything you won or most of what you won to a fund to help kids in your situation?
Q. Or abused kids?
Q. You understand you signed that, didn't you?
A. Yes, I did. Because that's, I never, it was never about money for me, it was about the fact that I wanted to get the truth out. I knew the only way I ever get the truth out is try to get into court. And even when my perjury case came up and they dismissed it, everybody else seemed to be happy for me. But I was, that messed me up because I never got my day in court. I never got a chance to prove that I was telling the truth. And they finally, if I would have gotten that chance and stuff, they knew they had no, the prosecution knew they had no case. They could not get one person to come to court and say the terrible things they got people to say about Alisha. She had too many people that knew her that didn't like her. But me 1, 1 made friends everywhere I went. And the fact that I brought the case, brought this stuff up three years before I ever got arrested.
Q. Let me hit on that. One moment. You put into writing your whole story on this, as I recall, before you ever saw a psychiatrist, is that correct?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. You gave it without ever being under hypnosis?
Q. You were hypnotized by the police or the court's psychiatrist after you had told this story, is that correct?
A. Yes. It was the police who had Dr. Mead hypnotize me, took me to St. Joe's, the police are the ones that took me to St. Joe's, they're the ones that had the hypnosis planned. It wasn't my choice. I mean, I agreed to it only because I felt that it would probably help me to straighten out some things and stuff. And that hypnosis, to state for the record, only dealt with one person. And one person alone. It had nothing to do with anybody but Peter Citron. He was the only one brought up during this hypnosis at all. It had nothing to do with Larry King, Alan Baer, the police, any priest or anything, had nothing to do with anybody but Peter Citron.
Q. And the things in the petition, that we alleged and that you've read repeatedly and you wrote and told us in effect about Peter Citron, they're all true?
A. Yes, they are.
Q. Peter Citron went to prison, you know, of course, for molesting youth?
A. Went to prison after Id already been talking about him doing that stuff to me. And I never had, of all the people who abused me he's the only person I really never, never ended up getting any anger or animosity toward. Because he was, I guess if you could talk about abuse, he was one of the nicest. Of all the people who abused me. He didn't use threats of killing me and wiping me out or everything, continually having me end up like I did a suicide by overdose or pushed out a window or shot to the head.
Q. So he was a good abuser?
A. He, cant say good abuser, but he didn't, he didn't result, he didn't lower himself to threatening my life like mainly everybody else. Especially Larry King. Who I knew had the money to do it.
Q. And Peter Citron and his activities with you were done for his own pleasure rather than ordering you like Larry King did to do this for others, is that correct?
Q. Paul, my final question, have I in any way told you what to say here today?
Q. Have I in any way pressured you, coerced you, begged you, told you, suggested anything?
Q. And is everything you're telling us today the truth?
A. Absolutely, yes.
Q. You realize that people, Alisha Owen for example, went to prison for saying essentially the same things you've said here today?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. You're still claiming that these are true?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Is there anything you want to correct at all that you've said?
A. Nothing I want to correct. But there's some other stuff about, like even my relation with my wife and stuff is affected by this because I'm afraid to open up to her. And the fact that I feel like I'm not even a human being any more because, because going to prison and stuff, all my rights been stripped to me just about. And it's, and knowing that none of this, the fact that I would have never gone to prison, I mean, everything my name and my family run through the mud, it would have never happened if it wasn't for the likes of Larry King and the rest of them. Who kept their thumb on me and every time I tried to break free from them they just threatened to kill me or kill my family. It got to the point where it didn't matter about me any more, it's like I've always been more concerned about my family. You know, it's like I know if I die I'm going to heaven so, you know, it don't matter to me. But it's like my family means more to me than anything.
Q. You're working now?
A. I'm working now. I'm working part-time right now but I will be working full time this summer. Finally got a job that's going to be worth something.
Q. And you're married now?
Q. How long have you been married?
A. About two and a half years.
Q. You asked me not to ask you any other family questions?
A. Safety of my family.
MR. DECAMP: I have no further questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Bonacci, I have a question or two I'd like to ask you. Did Mr. King, Lawrence E. King, ever sexually abuse you?
THE WITNESS: Yes, he did on numerous occasions.
THE COURT: How many times would you estimate?
THE WITNESS: Probably a couple of hundred. Within all of the different personalities.
THE COURT: How old were you at that time?
THE WITNESS: Beginning at the time I was approximately 12 or 13 years old. Up until I was about 17 or 18.
THE COURT: As I understand it the three doctors who examined you concluded that your multiple personality disorder was a result of sexual abuses entirely or with other things, what was your understanding?
THE WITNESS: According to the psychiatrist, the stuff, it was almost exclusively due to the sexual abuse and also the extreme physical abuse that most of these people, most of the guys had abused me with. They, like putting guns up to my head. Had guns put in my mouth. I had, on several occasions Larry King sent out boys to, or not boys, men, to jump me.
THE COURT: You mean by that that he, Mr. King, would
THE WITNESS: He would order them.
THE COURT: -- direct the other men to do that or the other persons to do that?
THE WITNESS: Yes, he would direct them to do that. Sometimes, couple of times I was taken to where he was at and he had them pretty well beat the tar out of me from about the waist down so nobody would, my family or nothing would see any marks on my face or anything. He had, there was like two or three guys that he had kick and beating me pretty good. And one time I had my fingers broken by a kid that, a guy they called Larry The Kid. And my family knows about that. But they thought I had a bike accident. But the doctors kept trying to push on it because, push me about it because of the way they were broken. They said there's no way I could have broken it by flipping over the handle bars of my bike, it looked like somebody had grabbed the knuckles and busted them and twisted them. And that was done by, right in front of him.
THE COURT: Okay. What other physical injuries can you remember having?
THE WITNESS: Excuse me?
THE COURT: How many, what other physical injuries can you remember receiving?
THE WITNESS: I can remember them burning me with hot instruments. Placing stuff inside of me.
THE COURT: Doing what?
THE WITNESS: Placing objects inside of me.
THE COURT: Objects inside you?
THE WITNESS: Such as like a, it was a, I don't know exactly what it was, almost like what I call a cattle prod or something. But it would be put inside then they'd shock me inside of my --
THE COURT: Anus?
THE WITNESS: Yes. And they would
THE COURT: You mean electrically heated?
THE WITNESS: It was like they put it in then they would have a button he would push and it would shock me. I hadn't told anybody about that because I've been working through a lot of this getting everything from all the personalities put together, which has taken years. Trying to make it, make any sense.
THE COURT: And were those things, the burning and the putting of these hot irons in you, done by Larry King or at his direction?
THE WITNESS: At his direction.
THE COURT: Did you hear him give the directions?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: How many times did that kind of thing happen?
THE WITNESS: That happened about three or four times. One time I had threatened to, we were in a different -- we weren't in Omaha, we were in, I believe it was California, I threatened to go to the police there.
THE COURT: You threatened to what?
THE WITNESS: I threatened to go to police in California, thought maybe they would listen whereas in Omaha they were under in his pocket book or something. And I couldn't get out of the car. One other thing he had ordered was we were on an airplane and he had me, or he had me hung out of the airplane with a rope by my ankles.
THE COURT: At his direction?
THE WITNESS: Yes. That was on the same trip that I threatened to go to the police. He was doing everything he could to make sure that I was quiet about the activities that had taken place.
THE COURT: What was your primary duty, according to directions you received from Mr. King?
THE WITNESS: It depended on what he needed. A lot, most of the time it was to compromise politicians so he could get whatever he wanted from them. Or whatever somebody, he wanted or that somebody he knew wanted to get. If they wanted to get something passed through the legislature or whatever, he would put some people that were against it in a compromising position. By using us boys and girls.
THE COURT: Was this by your being the sexual partner of that person?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. And or getting some other young person to be a sexual partner?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Do you have any estimates of how often you participated as the sexual partner of one of these persons that he wanted to get some kind of control over?
THE WITNESS: Kind of hard to say. Because there were times when there would be four or five in a night. And I hardly knew, I didn't know most of them. But on probably a couple of thousand times. Sometimes --
THE COURT: Couple thousand times altogether?
THE WITNESS: Yeah. Sometimes dozens of times with the same person.
THE COURT: How did you finally get out of that practice?
THE WITNESS: In 86 when I went to the police I kind of broke away most of it there. By the fact that they, I, by the fact that they knew that I was talking about it. Also I kind of grew out of it because I was getting older. I mean, up until I was probably 17 or 18 years old I, I guess I was a late bloomer, I didn't go through puberty till I was about 18 or 19 years old. I looked like I was probably 13 or 14. And even in my yearbook pictures from as a junior in high school it looks like I'm probably about 13 years old. That's why they were able to use me for so long.
THE COURT: How does the fact of your remaining multiple personality disorder affect you now?
THE WITNESS: It affects me a lot. Especially like in work. It's sometimes hard for me to keep a job now. It's affecting my relationship with my wife big time. Because there are times when I know she's talked to other different personalities and stuff because, you know, it's affected me, I can go off the handle a little bit easy. I mean, I'm not really too physically violent but I'm more verbally violent. I don I know why I do things I do. I find that some of the things that used to be very easy for me do and stuff are difficult. And then the worst part is probably the flashbacks. Because there's still times and stuff where there's stuff I don't even know happened that will flood my mind and I can't get it off my mind for sometimes weeks at a time. III just kind of go into a moping period where it's like I'm trying to, I'm just working through it trying to see if I can even believe it myself. Because some of the things seem so outrageous. But I've come, I've come to figure out how to tell what's real, you know, the real memories from things that were placed in there on purpose to try and discredit me.
THE COURT: During your waking hours, when you're not asleep, do you find yourself sometimes moving into different personalities whether you're at work or otherwise?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
THE COURT: Are those any of the personalities, I think I heard you say a while ago that now you think you don't experience personalities that are destructive to you, is that a fair statement?
THE WITNESS: No, I don't. The only person that I know that I have left is Wesley. He's not destructive at all. He's more of a making sure that nothing ever goes wrong.
THE COURT: Okay. He's protective of you?
THE WITNESS: Very protective.
THE COURT: Okay. Is he the only one?
THE WITNESS: The only one that I'm aware of.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: III leave it at that, because I never want to transcend --
THE COURT: Mike, which is no longer.
THE WITNESS: As far as I know I believe he's gone but -- it would be hard to say.
THE COURT: I understand. Are you under any treatment now?
THE WITNESS: No, sir.
THE COURT: How long have you been without treatment?
THE WITNESS: When I first got out of prison I was living with Reverend Morrow in Lincoln we worked out most of the stuff down there and stuff going through memories. And all of that stuff. And actually for treatment and stuff, I've contacted several psychiatrists they said unless you're really, unless you really suffer from like where you're losing time, maybe doing things that are wrong and stuff, you know, the best thing to do is just try and work through them yourself. And that's probably the best way. It's like, cause I go through years of treatment and stuff and I don't believe that that would do anything good and stuff. Main thing that's helped me the most is probably my faith. And getting involved in not just being a religious person, I'm not religious at all. Simply a Christian who's trying to do what's right and live my life respect, respectfully and stuff. And look out for other people and protect them.
THE COURT: All right. I don't have any further questions. Anything else, Mr. DeCamp?
MR. DECAMP: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may stand down, sir.
MR. DECAMP: Denise.
THE CLERK: Maam, would you state your full name and spell your last name, please?
THE WITNESS: Denise Ann Bonacci, B-o-n-a-c-c-i.
THE CLERK: Denise Ann Bonacci, B-o-n-a-c-c-i.
DENISE A. BONACCI
CalIed as a witness, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
THE COURT: Sorry, didn't understand your first name.
THE WITNESS: Denise.
THE COURT: D-e-n-i-s-e?
THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DECAMP:
Q. Denise, do you know Paul Bonacci?
A. Very well.
Q. How long have you known him?
A. Since July 1st, 1995.
Q. So you've known him about three and a half years?
Q. Not very good at math. Anyway. How did you get to know Paul Bonacci?
A. We have a mutual friend, Wes Offenbaugh, and Wes was trying to help me out counseling wise. And he didn't know what to do with me. So he said that Paul and I shared a lot of our same backgrounds, not with the Franklin case or nothing, but I mean I was abused as a kid too. He thought maybe Paul would be able to help me out, you know, somebody that would be able to understand what I was going through. And anyway, he sent him in to my work place. And the way he was, Wes described this he would be like in 40s and old and ugly. He comes in, he was 27 and gorgeous. So --so we hit it off immediately. And the next time I saw him was August 19th, we started dating two weeks later.
Q. You ended up getting married?
Q. How has, how has this whole Franklin thing impacted you or your family?
A. It has quite a bit. Growing up, you know, I was really shy and everything. And, but I had a lot of friends. And, you know, I wasn't ever scared, you know, for my safety or anything. Andthen after meeting Paul, I thought that Wes was joking on a lot of the stuff, then Paul gave me a copy of The Franklin Cover-Up book and then the one by the grand jury, A Carefully Crafted Hoax, and I went through those. And anyways, I read them. I was asking Paul a bunch of questions, then he took me down to go see Reverend Morrow and talk to him for a while. And Reverend Morrow explained a lot of this stuff that Paul did talk to me about. But it's, Paul's abuse has really caused a lot of -- cause I had boyfriends before. You know, but nothing like Paul before. Because I didn't know MPD even existed, I never heard of it before.
Q. Join the club.
A. Yeah. But, you know, we've spent a lot of time together. And first time I noticed that something was different with Paul I didn't even know that he had MPD. Because nobody had mentioned it to me. And we were at Hy-Vee at the deli and we were waiting in line to pay for it. And it just, I was talking to Paul and everything that I was saying -- well, I thought it was Paul, and he just, he looked different. And we had been dating for, I mean, we were dating for a couple of months. You know. And it was, he looked totally different. Everything I talked to him about, you know, he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about. And he gave me gifts that later on, you know, I thought they were really odd gifts, you know. And later on I, you know, I asked him, you know, where in the world he got it. Because, you know, like jewelry box, things like that, you know. And he had no idea where he got them from. And I'm like, you know, he's like, you know -- sometimes he'd be over at my house and we were engaged and, you know, he'd be talking with my family and stuff, you know. And he'd look at stuff, says where did you get that? I says, well, you gave it to me. No, I didn't. He was serious, he didn't know that he gave me these gifts. But anyway, we talked about it and I found out about the MPD. But he was always telling me that he was totally integrated and I thought he was. And the 20-20 interview last spring or last summer, whenever it was. And anyways, I thought he was totally healed. And they started doing the interview, Karen Bums and then her assistant Hillary, I don't remember her last name. But Paul had just switched over to Wesley. And that was my first --
Q. Then it shocked you?
A. Yeah. Quite a bit. I told the 20 --
Q. Was it clear it was a totally different person?
A. Yeah. They had me on the other side of the room. I told them I wanted to be sitting next to him. They lied about the whole thing.
Q. They know how to do certain triggers?
A. Yeah, they knew.
Q. Bring it on certain personalities, didn't they?
A. Yeah. They knew all about his MPD. I didn't know anything about it, you know, except to what they told me. They said he was totally integrated. And --
Q. He told you he was totally integrated?
A. He told me he was because he thought he was at the time. And 20-20 knew and -- cause Paul and I for our, for our honeymoon we went to St. Louis. And I had just been asking Paul, you know, has he ever been to St. Louis before and he said no. Well, during the 20-20 interview that he was talking about drug stops in St. Louis. I'm like, he's lying, that's what I was, that's what I told Hillary. Cause Hillary was sitting next to me. I had been on the other side of the room. And anyways Hillary says, no, that's one of his personalities. And I'm like, what? You know, cause I didn't know what it was. And I told them to stop filming and they wouldn't stop-filming. They kept on saying, you know, well, let's have him talk about it. And everything that they said that they weren't going to talk about they did. So -- cause they said they were only going to ask like two or three in connection with the Johnny Gosch case. As soon as he's found it was, it was different personality, that's all they talked about. But that caused a lot of stress right there. Then also Paul doesn't like to talk about his past that much at all. But last January, I think it was, Paul's mom and his brother Tim, not Tim, BJ and Debbie and Paul and I were all out to Village Inn and Paul's mom was showing us this pin that she got representing all of her grandkids. And Debbie had said that there was one missing that was for one of Paul's other kid. And we're like, I didn't know anything about it. So there was a lot of different stresses from his past. You know. Stories that keep on coming up from his past the other personalities have done that's come up. Also we have a lot of fights because different personalities will come up and they'll tell me stuff and III ask him about it later and hell totally deny ever saying it. Also since I've known him, which is almost four years now, the longest he's ever held a job is like four months. And it's just very frustrating, you know. That he doesn't give two weeks notice or anything, he just walks out and never comes back. You know. He's always afraid that he's going to lose me, like I'm going to leave him or something. He's even told me that he's afraid to get close to me or anybody because he's afraid that, you know, we're going to leave him. Also my sister, I've got two sisters, and we like to go to movies, you know. And he doesn't like to go to see any horror movies at all because he doesn't like the sight of blood. And that, he has said, is directly related to the, to the Larry King and all the other stuff. Like we're going to go see the movie Scream Two when that was out and he said no because a lot of the stuff that he seen on the previews and stuff reminded him of different stuff Larry King and people's done. Also like two weeks ago we were watching the movie Dead Poets Society at our house. He had never seen it before. And one of the main character's kid's shoots himself. Towards the end. And Paul saw what was going on, he said there's no way he could sit there and watch that because he had seen some of his friends were shot. And, you know, it's just stuff like that. Also in our relations he's, I don't want to embarrass him. But
Q. Go ahead.
A. He, he just, he acts sometimes like he's disgusted by the whole thing throughout. He's very secretive about a bunch of stuff. He, you know, he's got a bunch of paperwork on the, on the Franklin case and he's got a filing cabinet at home. And he doesn't want anybody to look at it because he's afraid that, he's always told me that he doesn't want to tell me too much information because he's afraid for my protection. Because he says if you know too much something could happen to you. So
Q. Do you have any additional information or whatever you want to provide the Court?
A. Yeah. It's just, I can see that he's very scared to be close to anybody. Just, you know, he doesn't do a lot of the normal stuff that most people his age does. Such as going to movies. Or seeing movies. Some people just doesn't like that type of, that type of movie. But he says that the main reason is because it brings back too much memories for him. He has a lot of nightmares. And I know that because we have a waterbed, he like flops over all the time, you know. Also he's just, whenever he sees anybody's name in the paper that, you know, had abused him or anything he gets really mad and hell be moody for a couple of days. And it's really affected him quite a bit. Caused a lot of stress in our marriage.
MR. DECAMP: I have no further questions.
THE COURT: You may stand down.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I have no additional witnesses.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. DECAMP: Brief closing. I would just request that the Court look at the entire situation. And I realize it's some fantastic tales, I wish maybe we could take a week and try to establish every one of them, but I'm sure that's not the purpose here today. Purpose is --
THE COURT: Quite limited.
MR. DECAMP: I understand. I--
THE COURT: The limited purpose for me is to decide what kind of compensation Mr. Bonacci should get from Mr. King.
MR. DECAMP: We full well understand, Your Honor, probability of getting even a single penny is incredibly remote. At the same time maybe as a, maybe as a signal or lesson or something to some people out there a very substantial maximum damage award might prove a point or prevent some other child somewhere some time from being abused.
THE COURT: All right. III do the best I can in assessing the testimony.
MR. DECAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: And the documents. All right. We're in recess. Thank you.
(1:49 p.m., recessed.)
I, Gary G. Latimer, Court Reporter, certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter.
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