Interview with Cathy O'Brien

TT: You said that they controlled the music you heard. What did they want you to listen to?

Cathy: There was a lot of music going on back those days that I have missed and have only found since I have been recovered and deprogrammed and have been able to choose music for myself. But the 60s freedom music I didn’t get to listen to, and any kind of protest, or anything like that. Instead I had to listen to country music. That ultimately was the industry that I traveled in during the Reagan/Bush administration, under the control primarily of Senator Byrd, who was my owner in MK-ULTRA.

TT: When did Senator Byrd become your controller? And what was he like back then? Because now he’s sort of a doddering old man. He’s always shaking. Was he like that when you knew him.

Cathy: No. I’ve been familiar with him all my life, or all of my mind-controlled existence rather. Because there’s not any “life” under mind control per se, because there’s no capacity for free thought, no capacity for free will, or ultimately any soul expression. So I could only robotically do the things that I was told to do, and during those years I was exposed to numerous high-profile political perpetrators that were involved in MK-ULTRA. They are, of course, named in our book, The Trance-formation of America.

TT: What was the progression of controllers that you had. Was there more than one at a time?

Cathy: I had what is termed “handlers”, and handlers would make sure that I was in various places at certain times, either on military or NASA installations for mind control programming, or in and out of Washington, D.C. I traveled under the guise of the country music industry, because it provided a means of travel in and out of the Caribbean, Mexico, and Canada, which were primarily the areas I was used in, as well as all across the United States. So my handler would make sure that I was in designated areas at specific times, either for programming, or to carry out the covert operations that I was used in during the Reagan/Bush administration.

TT: OK, so Senator Byrd was not the only one. Is there a difference between a handler and an owner, or a controller?

Cathy: I had two different handlers in the course of being under absolute robotic mind control, and my father, I’m sure, would be considered a handler as well, because once he agreed to raise me according to government specifications, he followed their instructions and followed what they told him to do with me, and where to take me, how to condition me, how to control my environment, and things like that. So in essence, he was my first handler. When MK-ULTRA came into my life, the regimentation, the systematic kind of conditioning and abuse and programming that I received from that point on was far more structured than the natural high suggestibility resultant from the incest and the pornography that I was used in as a very young child. My father was approached and told. He didn’t think to do this on his own, in other words. He was being told. So he became a handler. Handlers follow instructions. Owners are the ones who decide which projects or which operations to use someone in, and in my case, that was Senator Byrd, and that was how I ended up on a higher government level. I first met him at Mackinaw Island, at the Governor’s mansion when I was 13 years old, and that’s when he became my owner, which lasted throughout my victimization right up until Mark rescued my daughter and I in 1988.

TT: As far as the operations that you were used in for Project Monarch - it started out with prostitution and pornography, right?

Cathy: Right.

TT: And then did it move into other areas? Were you used as a drug mule?

Cathy: Well, I think the next step that was so significant to me was the use of occultism. At that time the local Catholic church - and again, I’m not saying that all Catholics are involved and that they’re all bad, but there is a criminal faction within the Catholic Church, within the Order of the Jesuits, which is the intelligence arm of the Vatican, a part of which my family ultimately had ties into and was a further causation for me to be victimized within the church system. But nevertheless, the Catholic church was heavily involved in the sexual abuse of children, which was widespread and has definitely come to light. They’ve had to pay out on numerous child abuse cases as a result. But the reversal of the Catholic Mass is, of course, Satanism, and being exposed to Satanism is definitely trauma too horrible to comprehend. Any kind of blood trauma like that is really horrible, and that was used to further dissociate my mind, further compartmentalize it for future programming. And that theme was used right through my second handler. Well, really, right on through my whole victimization there was always some aspect of occultism that came in as well. And alien themes were also a very common trauma base. Anything that’s beyond our ability to affect or control, or something in our minds that we perceive as too big to be able to affect like that is what they would use to ultimately gain control. Superstition begins where knowledge leaves off, and superstition makes a person more suggestible and easily controlled, so they definitely used superstitious kind of themes to further program. Those were significant trauma bases.

TT: Yeah, I understand from your book that there were Satanic rituals that took place at this Catholic church. Were there Satanic rituals that took place elsewhere throughout your life?

Cathy: Definitely, and so often they’re done more as a trauma base for mind control. It’s even used in the military which, for example, has the occult Temple of Set, which is supposedly more intellectually based, which is used to traumatize people. That leaves them widely suggestible for mind control programming. It’s a very deliberate method, and it has proliferated heavily on our military bases. And it was certainly a part of my victimization right up until Mark rescued my daughter and I. And I say “rescued” because I had lost my ability to even think to survive. There was nothing I could do to pull us out of our situation. I couldn’t think about what was happening. I was so robotic by that time. It took someone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and a heart to care to be able to take us out of the situation that we were in.

TT: You seem to be saying that these people were not religiously Satanists. They were just using it to control people.

Cathy: Oftentimes that was the case.

TT: But do you think there is a spiritual aspect to this, where they actually believe in the power of Satan, or of these other gods?

Cathy: I think there are some that believe that, but the primary mind control programmers who use that for a theme certainly know better and know that the so-called “Satanic power” was in the form of a stun gun and sophisticated mind control programming methodisms that included harmonics, and a deliberate, systematic use of sleep, food, and water deprivation. That was what they really knew to be the ultimate power, and didn’t have anything to do with anything spiritual.

TT: There was, in your programming, a lot of imagery from Disney and other popular children’s movies which was used. And also there was something you were forced to participate in called “The Most Dangerous Game.” Have you seen that movie, The Most Dangerous Game?

Cathy: No.

TT: It’s this movie from the 50s about human hunting.

Cathy: I wonder if that was based on the military maneuver, or if the military maneuver sprang from it. I’m not familiar with that movie, but I am familiar with the military maneuver of playing “The Most Dangerous Game”, where a person is in the woods and attempting to survive while they’re being hunted. That was the kind of trauma that I was exposed to for programming purposes.

TT: I thought that it was significant when I found this out the other day: one of Anton LaVey’s favorite places in the world was Disneyland, and his daughter, Zeena LaVey’s favorite movie was The Most Dangerous Game.

Cathy: I think one of the strongest weapons is a scramble of fantasy and reality, kind of along the same lines as military programming tactics. They use a video game for military training, and they can’t tell reality from the video, so when they’re actually in a combat situation, it’s more like they’re just playing out a video game. They loose their ability to consciously comprehend what they’re doing, and to be able to critically analyze it, which is really essential. And so they end up just being able to point and shoot, point and shoot, without giving it any real thought to the magnitude of what’s actually happening. They’ll play it out more like a video game. And oftentimes with mind control programming, they would attempt to scramble it with a movie, hence the conditioning of the Disney movies and all, which were quite extensively used. But the primary one which was used was The Wizard of Oz, because of the kind of dimensional aspects that come into play of “over the rainbow.” We see a lot of indications that this is still going on today.

TT: Do you think that the movies were written and edited specifically for the use of mind control, or was the mind control adapted to the movies?

Cathy: That’s a good question, and I wouldn’t really know.

TT: When your father started participating in Project Monarch, didn’t you say that Gerald Ford came over to the house to give him instructions?

Cathy: Well, he was a local politician, and as his career escalated, so too did my victimization. But then, again, I don’t know how you wanna go about naming names and the best way to put it in this particular article, so I’ll leave it up to you and your discretion. But ultimately for names, I think I’d refer ‘em to the book, because The Trance-formation of America was written for the U.S. Congressional Select Committee on Intelligence Oversight, and the facts that are in the book are all well-documented, where they would be able to have a point of reference for understanding exactly the material that was written there, probably more so that the average person on the street. So the documentation, the absolute facts, and names are definitely in the book.