Dr Kelley lecture

The following recording was made on Sunday afternoon, November 7, 1971 at the monthly meeting of the Mid-Manhattan Chapter of the International Association of Cancer Victims and Friends. It was held at the Times Square Center, 410 West 45th Street, New York City. Ruth Sackman, the Executive Director, is heard as she introduces Dr. William Donald Kelley of the Kelley Research Foundation, Post Office Box 89, Grapevine, Texas, Zip Code 76051.

Dr Kelly holds a degree of D.D.S., and M.S., in education.

RUTH SACKMAN: "I'd like to tell you something about Dr Kelley. He's a practicing dentist in Grapevine, Texas, Head of the Kelley Research Foundation, Fellow of the International College of Applied Nutrition, Member of the American Dental Association and many other dental societies and nutritional groups. Author of the book "One Answer to Cancer". His research work has been reviewed and published by the American Cancer Society in their November December 1970 issue of Cancer Journal for Clinicians. He is presently working at Baylor university to obtain his Ph.D., as well as lecturing, writing and conducting a dental practice. Now I want to add to that, you have here a very compassionate man who is terribly interested in helping rid this country of this terrible disease. I know many if you would like to talk to him personally but he is exhausted. Many people have taken up a lot of his time but I do hope you will be able to get all of; your questions answered today. I am honoured to present Dr. William Donald Kelley."

DR. KELLEY: "Well, thank you very much Mrs Sackman. I have a problem most of the time getting people to hear me so if I don't talk loud enough why you stand up and scream or something and I'll holler a little louder.

It's a real privilege to be here in New York City. You really have a fantastic place here. It's a jumping, live-wire place and we've really enjoyed it. We've been here, in and out of here, for almost a week now and we've certainly enjoyed being here.

I want to talk to you today a little bit about the diet in relationship to malignant conditions. And first of all, we have to understand what we are talking about and to define our terms, and so we'll spend a little time doing that. But the very first thing I want you to really understand is that, when you go along with me or I go along with you, the basic principal involved here is something that we as Americans are going to have to change our way of living. Period. This means a whole, complete radical change and the first thing is to change our philosophy of living. It's too easy for us to whip out our little 'ol pocketbook and get out one of these things and just go around and plunk it down and buy everything we want. This is the philosophy we are into right now and we've got to stop that. We just can't buy good health - we just don't have that much money---no matter who you are. It's going to take more than actual money. It would be easy that way and I would like to do it and I tried it for a long time and it doesn't work. We're putting our physicians under a tremendous, horrible stress pattern whenever we think that we can take this beautiful instrument that God has given us - this most perfect machine that's ever been developed and do anything on earth to it. We can smoke it to death, we can junk food it to death. We can stress it all day and all night. We can be angry, unhappy and ugly to it. We can mutilate it any way we want to and then when it finally wears down a little bit or wears out, wel1 then all we have to do is just run and pay the doctor a little money and he fixes it up. Well, we’re getting to the point now where we can't do this.

So this is what we’re going to talk to you today about: ---let's do something for ourselves, it's our responsibility. You know, it's each individual person's responsibility. When you're talking in terms of cures, we don’t believe in cures. I’ve got several degrees and I don’t care how many degrees you have in college and how many degrees you have, you can only cure one person and that's yourself. You can’t cure another person. You can only give him help that he can cure himself. Put this is the definition of the term cure that we're talking about. You have to do it yourself, your own body does its own curing. The doctor may direct you and you may follow this direction but you must do your own curing and your own body will cure itself or adapt to the stress it has been placed under.

Now, first of all we want to talk to you so that you can understand, a kind or a philosophy in which we orientate ourselves. And we're talking. in terms of diabetes, first. Let's go into the history of diabetes. In all the history of the world up until about 1918 when a person developed a gangrenous foot or a gangrenous hand or had problems in this area healing, or had a bad injury that wouldn't heal and so forth, then the doctor said "Well, you've got diabetes". And they'd cut off a leg or a foot or an arm or something and say, "well, you’re cured of your diabetes", and this isn't true. Finally, it dawned on them around the early 1900's that diabetes was a systemic disease. Up until this time you'd go into the doctor’s office and you'd say "Well, what can I eat?" And he'd say, "Well, it doesn't make any difference". "Just eat whatever you want to". And; of course, we know better than that now. Almost all, an overwhelming amount of diabetes is controlled by diet alone.

This is the same developmental level we are on at the present time in cancer. We go to the doctor now and when we say "what's wrong with me, "why do I feel so bad?" Finally in a year or two they find out why. You have cancer. So they cut it out. So you say, "Well doctor, what can I eat?" Well it doesn't make any difference. "Eat anything you want to. Eat a lot of meat and stuff and it'll be real good for you. All the nutritionists have repeated the medical data, like Adele Davis, (who has done a beautiful job and she is a wonderful person and a good friend) but these people just don't know what they're talking about. It would be just as bad if you go to the doctor with a good diabetic condition and he'd say, "Well, you've just got to eat more sugar, you just need it, you’re deficient in sugar. You've got to eat more and more sugar". Well, it just doesn't work. So now what I'm trying to say is this. Diabetes is the inability of the body to metabolize properly, sugars and carbohydrates. Cancer is nothing more than the very simple inability of the body to metabolize proteins properly. And that's all cancer is. And no matter how much you want to think of it in other terms, you're going to eventually have to come back to the concept that cancer is nothing more than the inability of the body to metabolize proteins. It's a systemic condition. It will not under any wildest imagination that you can contrive, this tumor or lump that you've formed or that develops in your body is not cancer. It is a cancerous tumor and is not the condition called cancer, any more than a gangrenous foot is diabetes. It’s just the result of a diabetic condition. And the tumor mass or glob or lump you have in your breast or in your prostate or in your stomach or under your skin or anything is nothing more than the end result of a general systemic condition-----the inability of the body to metablize protein properly.

Now we want to know what causes this condition. And this is simply a failure of the body chemistry or an upsetting of the body chemistry and this is most frequently or can most easily be orientated around the function of the pancreas. The pancreas is the body’s natural defense against a malignant condition. It is the area in which we produce enzymes which metabolize our foods. Particularly proteins. And so we go into what fails in relationship to the pancreas. The pancreas fails and after the pancreas fails, usually it’s between 8 to 18 months after the pancreas falls to function properly that you develop a little tiny cancer cell in your body and then this starts growing, the tumor. You shouldn’t say cancer cell, you should say tumor mass but most of us think in terms of cancer. But the tumor begins by one little cell developing.

This grows for approximately 39 months before it becomes large enough for your physician to clinically find it. And then when that happens he says, "well, you’ve got cancer". But you've had cancer for about 5 years before he can find it. Occasionally you have a real rapid growing tumor and it nay he a year before they can clinically find it. A fast growing tumor or we should say a cancerous condition where your pancreas really fails real rapidly and you have a complete failure of the pancreas and then you develop a malignant condition rather rapidly. Generally most, or the largest percentage of our, malignant conditions or tumor masses develop over a long period of tine. Sometimes they'll grow and sometimes they'll recede. It depends on the diet. There are occasionally times that the tumor mass will grow for a while and then you change your diet and then it'll dissolve for a while. Some people, on and off, have had cancer develop and recede, develop and recede, for several years, say 10 or 20 years. Which is normal, too. Which rather substantiates our theory or our basic concept that cancer is nothing but a systemic malfunction of the protein metabolism.

Now, what happens. There's about five basic things in relation that happen in the body whenever you fail in your protein metabolism or the pancreatic failure. One is the over intake of too much protein in the body. This is the first thing that happens in our American society. In Africa and in India they had very little cancer until the Americans came during World War II and introduced peanuts and other high concentrated proteins. We felt so sorry for those people over there. We introduced great concentrated protein diet of mostly peanuts and other products but mostly peanuts. And since their diet has been changed, of course, their incidence of cancer is much greater.

And so what happens? Let me describe the typical beautiful cancer developmental person in his early stages. He's a person, he or she, that gets up about 6 o'clock in the morning. This person drinks lots of milk, stretches a little bit, puts on their jogging clothes or takes some bending exercises or jogs around the block. He comes back in and eats ham and eggs for breakfast. He goes down to the office to work and gets into the office and about 10 o'clock he's completely fagged. He has a loss of energy, tired. So he gets a package of peanuts and eats those. For lunch, on Monday he goes down to the Lyons Club and eats roast beef. On Tuesday he goes down to the Kawanis Club and eats roast beef. On wednesday, he goes to the Rlotary Club and eats roast beef. On Thursday and Friday, the same routine, he goes to some club and eats roast beef. Well now he’s gotten along pretty good in society end makes enough income that he can afford to be up in the world. He comes home and demands a steak or at least a half a pound of ground meat of some kind for dinner. And he eats this, which is good. And finally he tosses the baby up \in the air and plays with him for a minute and then flops over on the couch and somebody turn on the idiot box in front of him to entertain him for a little while. He sits there and reads or watches the idiot box for a while then, along abut 9:30 he says, "Oh gosh, I'm so hungry. I've got to have something to eat". He demands the wife to run out and get him a big bowl of chocolate ice cream. He eats that and goes on and dozes on and off between the late shows. Finally along about midnight, he'll get up and has I peanut butter sandwich or a ham sandwich and another glass of milk and goes to bed.

Well, this is typical. And if this man had three pancreas, there's no way on earth that he could possibly digest all the protein, the junk that he puts down his intestinal tract. So what does he do? The symptoms are that he starts belching a lot of gas. He starts passing a lot of gas, until it runs through the house like a puffing 1870 Steam engine, and making about as much steam. And so we find that this is one of the very early signs of a malignant condition. We find that the person just cannot handle the protein and their pancreas is totally exhausted from trying to digest the junk that is put down the mouth. And this just overworks the pancreas, exhausts it. And what happens in a normal defense mechanism in a malignant condition, the person eats a reasonable amount of protein and the pancreatic enzyme secretes into the small intestine and it digests that. There's plenty of pancreatic enzyme left over that goes back into the blood stream, finds its way into the body, and when it gets into the body it attacks any cancer cells that happen to be forming that day.

The next most frequent cause of malignant conditions or failure of the pancrease function, so forth, is probably the mineral metabolism in our diet. Probably one of the best examples of this was a beautiful soul, a man in our area, that came in one time. He had cancer so bad in his chest, and through his heart and lungs that he could not possibly live. He had probably, at most, two months to live. He was a veteran. The Veteran's Administration would not even use cobalt on him he was so bad. They said it was no use wasting cobalt on you, you’re so bad. So he said, "What am I going to do? I've got a real problem." I saw his left side and it was quite enlarged and, there, he had his pancreas greatly enlarged. I thought this guy's got a real pancreatic tumor. And so we ran our little evaluation tests on him and we found that his pancreas was not infected with malignant condition, that it was enlarged because the body knew that it had to defend itself and so it was producing about 3 times what he average pancreas would produce in enzymes to destroy the tumor mass. But it wasn’t working. These enzymes were running right by his cancer and just looking at them and saying, Goodby". Nothing was happening. I said, Well, you've got a real simple problem there. All you have to have is minerals". And he said, "Well, I don't have any money". I said, "Well, the only thing I know to do (we were really so poor that we couldn't afford to give him any supplements), the best thing for you to do is to go down to the local place where we feed (and in Texas we have a lot of places like this), and you go down and take a bucket or a fruit jar or something that you can get out of somebody's back yard and get a quart of black strap molasses and take a tablespoon of this, three times a day". He said, "Well, doctor, I thought you'd give me some fancy pills or something or some miracle cure. I said, "I'm giving you what you need and I don't know anything about these miracle cures. That beyond my comprehension. I don't have any rest machines or anything like that". And so he did this.

In about three weeks he called me back and he said, "Oh doctor, you're killing me". I said, "How’s that?" He said, "Well, you know my diabetes is so bad that I just can’t stand this sugar and its making me worse. And that makes my blood pressure so high that I just can't stand it". I said. OK this is what you need. Now, you're very fortunate because if we can kill you with diabetes or with high blood pressure, then you don’t have to suffer the death of cancer". He said, "Well, you’re not very sympathetic." I said. "No, that’s exactly what you need". So he said, "OK" and he went on. I Said. "You can cut that down from a tablespoon three times a day to a teaspoon three times a day". In three months he called and said, "I just don't have the cancer any more and don't have the high blood pressure any more and I don't have the diabetes any more". And I said, "Well, that's good. Wasn’t that what you wanted?". He said, "That's what I came to get". I said. "Well you got it now".

In order to get minerals into the body we must first have enough hydrochloric acid. The hydrochloric acid dissolves the minerals from the food so that they may be absorbed. We are assuming of course, that the food has minerals in it! We are assuming also that the food is grown on good soil and that we are eating real---not synthetic---foods. If we fail to have enough minerals in our diet, what happens? The blood is going to maintain a mineral level so it must pull the minerals out of the bone. In order to get a small amount of trace minerals needed, there must be a great destruction of the bone. After the bones are destroyed the excess Calcium is deposited end we have arthritic conditions. The doctors should consider mineral metabolism in their treatment of arthritic conditions.

But the body has to have the minerals to maintain life. It has to have the protein to maintain life. So when this cancer victim starts into the loss of pancreatic function, he not only absorbs the bone structure to get minerals, he also absorbs the muscle structure to get protein. You have to have a certain amount of blood protein. Your blood protein has to be at a certain level in order to maintain life or you just won’t make it. If you don't get enough protein in your intestinal tract through your diet, you're going to get it pulled out of your muscles. And, therefore, you’re dissolving your own muscle system, you're dissolving your own bone system. This is a typical cancer patient.

And the next most frequent cause of pancreatic failure is probably emotional cause. You help the guy sitting in the office next to you or studying for this next to you for the last 20 years, did a lot of his work for him. Now comes promotion time. He has goofed off. You did his work and your work too and the boss promotes him over you. And that really upsets you. Just blows your mind, as the young people say. And this blows something in your mind, blows a fuse or something. Psychologically, it really wipes you out. So from that point on the nerve impulses from the brain telling the pancreas to work and to operate properly, well the message just doesn't get there. The connection developed that should be working there is not working anymore. Or the husband runs off with the secretary or something like that. Her mother dies or the kid gets run over by a car or something is such a shock to you it just really upsets you tremendously. It upsets you physically or psychosomatically. And these are some of the main basic causes of failure of the pancreas.

Now after the pancreas fails you have this inability to get protein into your blood stream through your intestinal tract. You get to the point where you just crave protein. You just crave milk. It's just unbelieveable how much you crave milk and meat and nuts because your body knows that it need's the protein. No matter how much you put into your mouth, none of its going to get into your blood stream. If we assume everything is working, everything is functioning perfectly. You grow your food on a beautiful soil and it has a lot of minerals, it's -organically grown, no poisons...

Now, whenever you take a fruit or a vegetable and you see a bruised spot on it, well you don't want to buy that. But this is the living example, all the time, of enzymes working all the time. This is how we ripen fruit, is through the enzyme action of the fruit. If you keep it at a warm temperature, it's going to ripen faster. If you keep it at a cold temperature, it won't. It's the action of the enzymes. And whenever you push on a pear, you're going to have a little bruise spot on it, or an orange or a banana or a carrot or anything else. What you do whenever you mash or break the cell walls down, then you release the enzymes in it, and it starts predigesting. So whenever you take the food into your body, most of the food should be raw. You should put it in your mouth and chew it 28 times like the book says. What you're doing there is you're pre-digesting your food. Not with your enzymes that's in your body. You're not depleting your body of enzymes but you're utilizing the enzymes that are already on the fruit and already on the vegetables. And whenever you get them working for you, you've gotten a long ways down the line. You’re starting to do something constructively. And so we must chew this rood properly and release their own enzymes. This goes down to the stomach, and there's the stomach without any hydrochloric acid.

Well, why doesn't the hydrochloric acid work in the stomach? Why don't we have any hydrochloric acid in the stomach? Well, two primary reasons. We need the chlorine ion and… I'm not telling you anything different than your doctor does and don't let anything I tell you... you always have to clear it with your physician. And consider that possibility. I mean, I'm just telling you some general principles and each of your cases may be different. There are two things the whole health food industry agrees on and the medical profession agrees on, and they both agree on this one thing. And they're both wrong. And that's no salt. They just get kind of uptight about salt. There's no reason to get uptight about salt, it's a necessary thing. Don't completely neglect salt. You have too much salt but you need enough. So in order to have hydrochloric acid in the stomach you have to have enough chloride ions in the body. And then, too, you must psychologically, or physiologically I should say, turn on the hydrochloric acid.

What do we do in our society? We go out and we eat a salad and we eat it first at the meal. That tells the stomach and the hydrochloric acid function to turn off. So turn off. So we don't need that, we're having salad today. Or we’re having fruit and we really need hydrochloric acid particularly for that, right now. So it turns it off. You need the hydrochloric acid mostly for meat and for the protein's. We eat things backwards in our society. We should, when we go to the restaurant, and they serve you a salad, set it aside and slap the waiter's hand if he takes it away before he serve's you, and then eat it after you eat the meat. Then eat your vegetables and stuff, which would be the ideal way. Then you eat the meat first, why? It turn's on your hydrochloric acid. However, if you're an ulcer prone person, it's OK to eat your salad first. That cuts off the hydrochlorlic acid so you don't get too much of it and that will help you along with ulcers. But the vast majority of us don't have ulcers. Unless it's specifically a regional thing. Maybe in New York City you do but in most of the country, not everybody has ulcers. But you might consider that possibility.

Now that you've got the food into your stomach with a good hydrochloric acid supply, then it comes down into your small intestine and here, really, this is where the whole factory blows up. You have several factors in the small intestine. It is really significant. First of all your pancreas has dumped a lot of enzymes into there, and we assume that's right. Your liver has to dump a lot of digestive juices, a lot of bile, and so forth. From the factors the liver dumps into your intestinal tract, makes it alkaline. It gets bile and does the fat metabolism. If you don't have a good liver, why then you have a strike against you.

So now we need to balance, and get your liver working better. And this is not too bad a job, but anyhow we must consider this possibility. We must always have your liver working right. So you have a small intestine that really is a beautiful machine and it has millions of little finger-like projections out from the inside of the intestine, and these little finger-like projections give a mass surface of many miles of digestive capacity so that it absorbs. Inside this little, villi finger-like, thing sticking out into the intestinal tract are the blood vessel's where the food is absorbed and goes into the main artery, goes into the liver, into the body to supply the body with food. We’ve eaten so much milk that these little finger-like projections into the intestinal tract have got mucus stacked about this deep in there. There’s nothing, short of dynamite, that can get this mucus out of the way long enough for the food to get up here to these finger-like projection's. So all these finger-like projection's are just coated and filled with mucus. This is why we eat so much and we’re so hungry all the time. You take a big ‘ol fat girl and she is starving to death. You look at her and say, "Why, that big ‘ol girl, she ought to quit eating. She just eats like a hog! Sure she eats like a hog. This finger down here is starving to death. It sends a message up to the brain, "Give me something to eat, my God, give me something to eat, for heaven's sake, I'm starving to death". After that turns on, this poor lady eats and eats and eats and it goes down into the intestinal tract, and what happens? Some of the water and a little bit of the sugar trickles into these villi that’s working there. She's starved to death for minerals and proteins and vitamins. She lives on a little bit of sugar and a whole lot of water. She's just stuffed full of water and sugar.

Now you take a real skinny 'ol guy, and he is so skinny, he’d eat you out of house and home, and he's still skinny. There’s no way on earth you can put weight on him. He's suffering from the same thing, he's got so much mucus attached in there. This mucus is selective. On some people, it only lets sugar go through, and on some people, only protein. On this guy, it only lets protein go through or maybe a few minerals, but mostly, just proteins. All he can assimilate is protein. He can’t assimilate any of the vitamins and minerals and carbohydrates. He's starved to death. You say, "My God, he's got a tape worm. It’s bad enough to have one kid to feed, but to have one kid with three tape worms is an impossible grocery bill."

But it coud be the mucus, because you’ve fed him milk all of his life, and cottage cheese. Now cottage cheese and milk is so good, such a good mucus builder that you can just kill yourself with it. And Metracal is anther one, and all these things that you're trying to reduce with. You eat more and more Metrecal, and this type of junk, and this wipes you out. You can't absorb any food. So that's OK, you just go around starving for the rest of your life. And then people expect you to function good at work. Your husband expects you to feel good all the time and you can't. It’s impossible for you to starve to death and feel good. The boss expects you to perform, and you can't do it. The teacher expects you to perform at school, and you can't do it...because you're starved to death. Basically, we're just starved to death. There's great malnutrition in our nation, just unbelievable. It's from many causes, but this is one.

Your blood is so thick, that it just mopes through there like an old tired horse. It just barely chugs through the blood vessels. Instead of a gallon a minute going through there, maybe a pint a minute goes through there, because it’s just too slow. This is one of the big factors in heart attacks. The blood is so thick, you're dehydrated

Your actual blood system is dehydrated. The best way to correct that is also one of these terribly expensive things, and that is: you take a third of a glass of juice, apple juice, pineapple, grapefruit, carrot, any kind of juice, it doesn't make any difference, and two-thirds of water, mix that up with a little bit of salt, an eighth of a teaspoon, just put a little shake of salt into this and stir this up. The salt and the juice solution will force so much liquid into the blood stream and dilute the blood stream and get it back into a proper volume. You need a good amount of volume in your blood stream. So now you get the volume in your blood stream right. Now then you're really wheeling and dealing. Now you’re about ready to do something in your body. You've got good food going to your stomach, you've got it into the villi and it's going up to the cell.

You finally get this balanced. You get the poisons coming out of your system, and you get food back in there and this cell starts re-growing. It starts having a normal, healthy environment to live in. You’d be surprised. It really perks up and you begin to feel good. You might feel good one day and then feel lousy for two or three. But every once in a while, you wake up and just feel like you did when you were 14 or 15, and feel like you could whip the world with one hand tied behind your back. And then your problems begin. This cell up here has waited 20 years to get something good to eat and says, "My God, I don't want to stop this". It continues that same message up to the brain, "Give me something to eat. I'm hungry." It's just gotten into the old habit of repeating the message. It's afraid it’s never going to get anything else to eat, and it doesn’t want to stop now. It wants to store up a bunch good stuff, because you may get back into the old problem you used to have before this. You really need a psychiatrist at this point, because it's really going to be tough. This thing continues to send a message to the brain and unless you have a lot of self will, and so forth, you’re going to get wider and wider and wider. You’re going to keep on eating as much as you always did. And when you keep on eating as much as you always did, instead of assimilating 5% of it, you’re going to assimilate 95%. You're going to get fatter and fatter and fatter.

So the problem is, that you must start at this point to learn to put your hands firmly on the table and push back. And do it quickly, about a second or two after you sit down to eat. You'll eat about one-tenth as much as you normally used to eat. And this is important, but I guess you can get fat if you can afford a new wardrobe and everything, but it’s better to learn to eat less and keep your body in good shape. Now you've got your body functioning normally and there's no way you can help but get well after this point. No matter what you do now, it's too late, you should have gotten there sooner, because you're going to get well now. And this is the primary thing.

Now, you want to Know: Do I have cancer or don't I have cancer? How can I tell. The doctor's not allowed, it isn't his fault, it’s our political situation.. There are many tests available at the present time that he can use, and you can get through this organization. You can do it yourself. They can tell you how to get these tests. But your doctor has a real problem. You can send your urine samples off to the Philipine Islands or to Mexico and you can get back the results of a test that you have cancer or you don't have cancer. There's a little test that we developed in our research. You punch a little hole in your finger and take a drop of blood out on the end of your finger and you can tell, pretty much, whether you have the condition of cancer, quote, bad protein metabolism, unquote. You may not have a tumor mass developed yet but you're on your way. You can tell by the way this little drop of blood comes out on your finger. It's very simple. That may cost you 35 cents or so. If that's not too expensive for you, you can try another test that's a little bit more expensive than that. It take's about 3 or 4 dollars.

Whenever this happens, when you get this real poopy sick feeling, then stop taking the enzyme for about five days. Let the body clean out these poisons, then start again. And keep doing this on and off. The second time you start it, start taking them again, you may not be taking them for more than 10 days or a week before you feel sick again, or feel lousy. But keep taking them, until you can take them for about three months without feeling bad. Then you're pretty well clear of the condition. And after that if I were you, I’d take at least three after each meal for the rest of my life, particularly if you're over 40 years of age. This is a good thing and you need them to help the pancreas. It'll supply the enzymes that the pancreas doesn't. Until the medical profession finds a real good test for pancreatic function, I believe that I would do this. If you are over 40, I would take some pancreatic enzymes because this would really be a help to your general health. Now pancreatic enzymes do not work like cortisone, or some of the hormone factors work where if you take too much of it, it'll destroy your pancreas. It won't do this. Pancreatic enzymes are amino acid or protein themselves. What you don't use for digesting food and cancer, you'll use them to build new cells.

Now if you detoxify yourself and you've got your good nutrition to the individual cells, you're well on your way to recovery from almost any chronic disease. This doesn't do much for infectious disease or traumatic conditions. The medical profession is quite skilled in this and you always need a doctor. Don’t throw your doctor out the window. He does as much as he can. He just isn’t skilled in nutrition yet, but he is going to have to be in order to survive in this world that's coming up in the next 20 years. He's going to have to be more skilled in nutrition.

Now let's talk about the diet that you need. It would be good for anybody, but it's good, too, for malignant conditions. There are some things that you should not do. And let's run through those first. You should not eat any animal proteins after 1 o'clock. This is, milk, meat, cheese and meat of all kinds, animal flesh products. You should also include in this after I o'clock, peanuts. You ought not eat these. These are the main things to not eat. Now also you must not eat white sugar or white flour at any time. Just give that up for a lost cause. Now all these things, this would be good for anybody. Then things you can have in the diet. You can have all the fruits and vegetables you want, all the grains and nuts and cereals that you can handle. Of course there are some individual differences. Some things you can't handle. If you need some things you can't handle, why then you just can't handle it. So don't keep on forcing yourselves, but most people can. We’re just making a general statement. You can eat almost anything else. And it's to your advantage to eat everything you can raw. I don't think we've' turned on our stove in the last 6 months. Oh, yes, we do once in awhile, we make some popcorn, I forgot about that, and occasionally we make a pot of tea. We turn the stove on to heat the water for tea. But at our house we never cook anything. It just never dawns on us to turn on the stove, unless we want a little hot water for tea. And that doesn't happen very often.

Now a lot of people discredit popcorn. Popcorn is a pretty good food. And probably the only "junk" food you can eat. I mean, like you go out to a movie' or anything. It's probably the best of the junk food that you can eat. Dr Walker is death on popcorn but I can't see this yet. I haven't been able to justify their bad position or their condemnation of popcorn. Many civilizations live on corn and it's a very good food.

It makes me feel like I’m really out sinning, whenever I go out to a movie and eat popcorn. So it's really nice to have something that you can eat without really hurting yourself.

Now there are a lot of questions that you have, that will get us into a technical discussion and we can rattle on. I've got nothing to do til 7 o'clock in the morning, so I'll be glad to answer anybody's questions. They say you can't smoke in the building, so if any of you are having a nicotine fit now, why run out and relieve this fit. And then come back and we'll have a Is this what we’re going to do?

Ruth Sackman announces question and answer period after intermission.

Q. What does a person do who is unable to tolerate raw foods anyway?

A. Of course you are going to have to cook them and take an over-abundance of enzymes. They make a vegetable enzyme that works well at a high PH. Like a PH which is almost pure acid and there are some companies, such as The National Enzyme Company in Chicago who manufacture them. You take this plus pancreatin enzymes if you can’t eat raw food. You take this with the meal---a cooked meal.

~ Q,, What is the name?

A. The name is actually called N-Zines, made by the National Enzyme Company in Chicago, Illinois.

Q. Would you say something about the diet, i.e. morning. noom and evening meal, for people.

A. We generally don't like to plan menus for anybody because we find that if I tell you to eat this and you say, "I don't like this, I an going to get off the program." I'll tell you the routine most people use----the 14 grain cereal for breakfast. They take carrot juice mid-morning and mid-afternoon. Fish for lunch and then have things like a salad or vegetables for lunch or supper also. Nuts. The best nuts to eat are particularly almonds with each meal and if you want, you can eat a lot of nuts like cashews, filberts and brazil nuts. These are good. These are also good for people who are hypoglycemic. This is the best thing to maintain the blood protein level. This will give a lot of strength and relieve symptoms better than most things that are available.

Q….You treated this awhile ago. Can I eat raw foods with an ulcer present? Do you recommend anything in particular, say an oil before a meal to ease the symptoms?

A. You'll have to work that Out with yourself and your physician. You try to eat as much raw foods as you can. You can juice a lot of carrots and use a lot of other juices, spinach and potatoes. Used in a juice form, I don't think will upset your ulcers too badly. Maybe as the doctor said, "take an oil before a meal". Anyhow, you will have to work it out for yourself, with your physician.

Q…Would you State if there is any corrollary between meat and cancer?

A. That is what we spent time talking about up to now. The correllation is that 85% of the total cancer problem today is caused by the over-intake of animal protein. There is a definite correllation. Now if you want to stamp out this 85% just stop eating meat, milk, cheese and peanuts after one o'clock. Then our whole society will change. It will be a great, beautiful change. The American Dairy Association was quite upset with me but then that's tough. I wish the day would come when a restaurant could charge $10 for a good salad. They would make their money and you would be healthy and happy and live longer and make more money so you could afford the$10 Salads. I don't know what to do about the American Dairy Association. I guess have more baby cows, because that's where milk belongs in 1,000 lb. babies. Maybe we can have more cows for some reason. But I think as a society, we ought to change our habits and it's about time we did it.

Q. Do you have anything to say about collagen diseases? Do you think your plans diet, etc. and enzymes could help?

A. Any systemic disease or chronic disease of aging process etc, could be helped by nutrition. Your body God designed to work, functions beautifully almost all the time. Cancer is just a minor disease. In fact, we weren't interested in cancer for a long time after we knew what to do about it. We were interested in a lot of other disease syndromes. Whenever you get a body functioning properly, then you're going to get well and there is nothing you can do about it. Just get it right and you'll have health regardless.

Q. You recomend protein supplements. I have found those made of soya lactose or animal protein, high in protein. Are they therefore, harmful to cancer patients?

A. We recommend protein supplements because we want to get the right amount of protein into the body. If you don't have enough protein in the body, the cancer is going to grow a lot more rapidly because your own natural defence system has to have protein. Your pancreas has to have protein to produce the enzymes which are protein and amino acids, which are necessary to defend yourself against cancer. This is why the grape cure works so beautifully for a short period of time and after that you just fall apart. Whenever you take the grape cure, you take no protein at all. Then what enzymes are available in your pancreas go directly to work on your cancer and your cancer is absorbed at a rapid rate. Then, if you take enough grape juice to give you energy and strength you will go on beautifully, thinking you have it made. But all of a sudden something happens you collapse.

This is because you have depleted the body of the raw material necessary to manufacture enzymes for your own self-defence. So we regulate by taking some protein supplements in the diet. We make sure you have enough, but not too much. This is best brought out in a study we did where we took a lot of young people, that is, I straighten young people's teeth. I took a blood sample of these kids. They took a lot of protein supplements from the health food store and their cancer count rose and rose and went on up. They got tired and got the general cancer pooped-out feeling from the cancer syndrome. So then they thought they would get off these protein supplements because they were too expensive. Naturally, they were so tired. The cancer was developing so rapidly in their body, they didn't feel like exercising and doing all the things they did and all the effort it takes to build muscles. So they give it up and then their cancer count would go back to normal. Next year they would start in again. We did enough study on this to know that if you take extra protein supplement's, you should take the enzymes to help digest them. Some of these kids we told to take enzyme with the protein, we did a double study on them. The ones who took the enzyme went ahead and developed their muscles, felt good and played football, weight lifting, did their studies in school and had no problem. The ones we didn't tell to do this, they just washed themselves out. So protein is important. Sowhenever you take protein in extra amounts, you need to take an enzyme with it. Adele Davis and many of the medical authorities say you have to have 150 grams a day. Further Studies, produced I believe, at Loma Linda College at Medicine at Los Angeles, found if you are an athlete in training or a heavy Steel worker, you need 50 gram. The rest of us who sit around and do nothing every day don’t need that much. We need a lot less than 50 grams. Don't get disturbed if you don't have 100 gram a day.

Q. Please give a menu for a period after the 6 day purge and fast period.

A. We don't give menus. We tell you things. What to do and not to do. You go on your normal healthy diet. We need to talk about the 6 day purge. 3 days of purging and 3 days of fasting---that may be too hard on a person. If that's too hard, you ought to do 1 day purging and 1 day of fasting every 2 weeks and then go back to the normal healthy diet after that. We don't give menus. We're in the process of developing a print-out computer system that will do this and someday we'll get this done.

Q. Where can you get the urine test?

A. You'll have to ask Cancer Victims and Friends. Mrs Sackman here will be able to tell you that later.

Q What is the value of coffee in the coffee enema? Do you obtain the same benefits by drinking coffee?

Q. On detoxification day, are the supplements discontinued?

A. We have answered this many times. It doesn't really make a lot of difference. We generally Send a routine answer --- that it is better to stop the supplements during the detoxification period.

Q. This Concerns people who have had radiation therapy and chemotherapy. How does this affect their chances eventually in using your therapy?

Q What Substance would interfere with your testing of the blood?

A, Nothing will interfere with it.

Q, Estrogens?

A. Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Q. How does one get to you in Texas?

A. We are really not interested in working very hard. It costs us too much money. For every patient we take, it costs us more money than the patient can possibly pay. We are basically a research organization and we do primary research and we are under individual grants from private people. The only way you can get to us is to have a written request from your physician and your physician will have to send you. Then it takes about a month or so before you can come to see us. We are only allowed by the people who pay the bills to take about 3 people a day because it costs too much. If you had about \$500 that you wanted to spend, well----- we just can't take more than a limited number of people a day.

Q. How long does one stay there?

A. You stay about half a day. It doesn't take long to do this. If you fly into Dallas and rent a car and drive over to the heart of downtown Grapevine, you finally discover someone in town who knows us. You come in and we test you. It takes about 3 hours to run the test and about an hour to talk to you and tell you all you need to know and then you go home and do it. Many times we make a cassette tape for your physician and explain this to him and you, but we can not work or take anybody at all without the request of their physician.

Q. Are there certain patients you consider beyond the scope of your treatment? That is too far gone or something like that?

A. Yes. If they rate a 1,000 on our scale. We find that there is no hope for them. We have a scale from 0 to 1,000. 0, you have no cancer at all and 1,000 the cancer is functioning perfectly and there is no hope. We have never had anyone rated 1,000 on our scale who made it. We’ve had probably 3 that rated 1,000 or above, and they did not make it. A lot of times people rate 950 and 960 and this gives them about a 20% chance of making it. But the ones that don't make it are the ones that don't even follow the program. They just say it's not worth the effort and they don't have the stick-to-itness to stick to the program. Occasionally we lose some.

Q. Here's a person who has an exceptionally large fibroid tumor of the uterus. She was wondering if she could be helped by followinq your regimen?

A. Fibroid tumors. We don't give any predictions. We’ve had many successes with fibroid tumors by balancing the body chemistry. The only thing I know is that there is an improper mineral balance in fibroid tumors and sometimes proper mineral balance will correct it.

Q. There as a person who has been taking pancreatin with each meal and she does not get sick from it but is getting progressively worse. Do you have a comment?

A. Progressively worse with malignancy?

Q. She thinks.

A. Well, chances are you are not assimilating your food or there is something wrong, probably the assimilation factor in the body is bad or she may be too far gone, but I doubt that.

Q. Do you have anything in particular to say about the use of kelp or iodine, or are they a part of your general mineral program?

A. The kelp and iodine should be a part of your general mineral program. You can take all the kelp or anything you want for mineralization. Vitamins and minerals.

Q. One person would like you to repeat your enzyme quantity and procedure

A. Well, if you just want to test yourself and see whether you have a malignant condition. I think that's what they are referring to. You go to the drug store and get a bottle of at least 100 triple strength pancreatin tablets. You take 14 of those after each meal for about a 3 week period and this should either lower the boom on you or relieve your mind. If you feel lousy or nauseated or have loss of appetite during this time, well then, you had better check into it a little more seriously. If you feel no affects---well then, you don't have to worry.

Q. Do you think you might help diverticulosis?

A. Well, diverticulosis is from a lot of causes, but anytime you get your body functioning normally and healthy, it will be some help to it (the diverticulosis). And get your body toned properly too. You can't function properly until you get some minerals and the body chemistry balanced. A lot of times it does help. It doesn't always.

Q. This person is upset about your statement about protein. She wonders just what you mean. I think you should distinguish, say, animal and vegetable.

A. We were talking about no protein in our book. We should have said no animal protein. Vegetable protein can use a different enzyme for digestion---that is not the same enzyme that is used for cancer. You can have vegetable protein like nuts and all the vegetable proteins are real good. Some animal protein up until one o’clock but you better eliminate animal protein after one o clock.

Q. Why?

Q. Would you say what the different juices are? Do you have a preference?

A. Different juices are significant. The Germans thought they could improve on our program when they got the basic program. So they started giving massive doses of Vitamin A which they thought we got in our carrot juice. They thought there was a significant factor in carrot juice. So, "we are just going to give our patients Vitamin A by injection, etc. and by mouth and So we won't have to mesa with juicing carrots." (Good carrots are hard to get in Germany. They went ahead and got a lot of Vitamin A. So what happens in this case? They forget one significant factor, and that is that we are not only interested in the Vitamin A because it helps break down the tumor wall and allows the chemical therapy or the enzymes to come in and destroy the tumor, but in addition to that, if you also have carrot juice you also have a great supply of minerals and so that is the factor they are forgetting. This is why their rate of success is not as great as ours is, because they have bypassed the concept of mineralization of the body, and you must do that. Another thing, if you mix carrot with the celery juice you have a good chance of balancing the phosphorous, potassium and sodium balance in the body and this is significant.

Q. I was thinking about the centrifugal juicers, the press juicers, etc.

A. Press juicers versus centrifugal force juicers. The test we've run---the press juicers are 2% better than the centrifugal force juicers, but 900% harder to do. When we find most people don't feel it is worth the effort. The 2% extra that they get from a press is not worth the 900% cleanup trouble that they have with the press types. It is up to you. There is a 2% factor there.

Q. Do you advise any other Vitamins and mineral supplements?

A. When we test for individual persons and we can provide an individual program. But you Should have a multiple vitamin as we have listed in supplement #1. Our concept is a good strong multiple vitamin. Of course, a natural is better than a drug store variety or a synthetic variety. This is what our ultimate goal is --- to get you off all supplements and to get you on 14 grain cereal, black strap molasses. That's all the supplements you need. But until you get your body chemistry balanced, why you are going to have to take some supplements.

Q Someone has said that the 14 grain is a very difficult food to take.

A. That is right, until you learn to live with it. There are some ways you can doctor it up a little bit to get it down. At night if you mix some honey or raw sugar with it and let it ferment during the night, its helps it. Some people take and put almost boiling water over it at night and put it in a wide mouthed thermos and it tastes more cooked the meat morning. It doesn't seem to injure it any. And then you put any kind of fruit on it the next morning, it makes it taste better. You eat it for 3 or 4 weeks and you get off it and you'll miss it. It is something like your boss. You like to have something to gripe about. This is a good thing and then you become friends at the end of stout 3 or 4 weeks.

Q. A person has a question concerning the pancreatin at a pharmacy. Can you obtain a similar or about equal pancreatin at a health food store?

A. All pancreatin is a natural product. A lot of people say they wouldn't eat the kind that comes from a drug store because it is not natural, but it is; it all comes from the same pig or cow. We find you have to watch the dosages. Approximately what you need is a 1,000 mg of NF or single strength pancreatin. You need about 3,000 mgs single strength pancreatin with each meal. That’s the ultimate criteria. So if you take about 4,000 mgs single strength pancreatin with each meal, this the normal maintenance dose for the average person over 40.

Q. There have been several questions concerning your blood teat, i.e.the opposition raised by the medical profession. Also people would like to know something about how it is done - the mechanics of it. Would you care to comment upon that?

A. Our blood test has never been critized by the medical profession. They have an injunction against me for publishing and printing and distributing my book which they say is the practise of medicine. This book is not practising medicine. Everything you read in this book they say is the practise of medicine and of course, this should not be done. No other court and no other society has ever said that a book can practise medicine, but in Texas it's a different horse. They want the book stopped so they use any method. So we are in the process of going to the Supreme Court about this. If you have any extra shekels to help us go to the Supreme Court or if you can write a letter' to the N.H.F. and ask them if they would support us, not only financially but morally, and to give the weight of their organization behind us. Freedom of the press is what we're involved in. They got an injunction for practising medicine, which I never do and never have done or intend to do, because I'm not that smart in medicine and I’m not inclined that way anyhow. I just want people to be nutritionally sound people and I am only a flunky for your doctor. I don’t ever try to tell him what to do. If he asks me some advice and what would I do, I tell him. If it works--that's good. But he is still responsible. There are so many things that happen in a person's life that you have to have a doctor and I'm not trying to discredit doctors or eliminate them. They are just going to have to go the nutrition route and they might just as well do it now. They are going to do it.

Now in relation to our test….Before I got involved in this, we studied the whole history of medical persecutions of independent researchers. And so they want to know the value of our test and how it is done mechanically. The people who finance this---its such an expensive operation, they elected in the beginning when studying the history of persecution by the medical profession, that never at any time (unless they change their minds). to give any information about the mechanics of our test. All we do is test and tell you what to do. It's like Jesus said, "after all is said and done, it's what works that counts".. "And by the fruits you shall know them". If we tell you what to do and you do it, why then that is all we are interested in anyhow. The medical profession historically asks a guy how his test is run--then they find out how to do it---then they wipe him out and make their big claims that they have discovered something new---and then put him in prison. Then about 2 or 3 years later there is a great discovery and they come up with this test and everybody thinks they are heroes again, which they are, but the way they get to be heroes is not too good a method. So I don’t want to get involved in that method or get wiped out myself. So the people who finance this will not allow any or this information to become available until this is socially acceptable and then we'll talk about it later.

Q. There have been quite a few questions on your previously mentioning urine testing.

A. Urine testing is a good thing. Dr. Beard, way back in the early 40's or even before then, developed a urine test that tells whether you have cancer or not and it is a very good test. It’s about 95 to 98% correct and accurate. What is measured is the gonadotrophin. There are only two times in the life cycle of the human being when you have gonadotrophins excreted in the urine. One, when you are pregnant and one, when you have cancer. If you are not pregnant and this test shows up gonadotrophin, then you have cancer. Now the problem involved in this is that Dr. Beard is one of those people who is going to save the world and tried to force his test on the medical profession. The drug companies accepted this test when made the two hour pregnancy test kit out of it. Now they have a 2 minute pregnancy test. They are using the same principal that he developed and the same system. They are making a fortune out of it. Dr. Beard is starving in Fort Worth, Texas. The man who developed it all has been persecuted, stopped from talking and this is the standard procedure. I talked to the companies who produce these tests and I told them five years ago that if they don't stop telling the doctors that this is a pregnancy test kit, they would run into trouble. About six months ago they finally admitted they had run into trouble because they have had so many false positives on these tests. The urine test which they use for pregnancy ---they told too many women they were going to have a baby. That either upsets them or makes them happy and nothing happens. They get so many raise positive tests so I told the company five years ago that they have to tell the doctor's that this test will test for pregnancy and cancer. These are available in every laboratory in every state and every medical supply company. The test they use for pregnancy is quite crude and it can be refined just a little bit and can be used for cancer detection. And maybe someday, in the next 3 or 4 years, the medical profession will socially accept this thing as a cancer test.

Q. Impossible to hear from the tape.

A. ? First part of answer also to understand Most people, as I told you, today whether they are fat or not, are starving to death for minerals.

Q. Quite a number or questions concerning low blood sugar here and something like black strap molasses.

A. Blackstrap molasses will make the symptoms more severe. In hypoglycemia you can get your minerals some other way if you want to. I don't think anybody really understands, or not very many truly understand what hypoglycemia really is. And if we ever get a publisher who will publish our works---I have written another book about the same size that our cancer book is----it will completely eliminate all the hypoglecemic problems if we can get it published someday. It is as simple as cancer.

Q You make quite a distinction between peanuts and nuts. Will you comment please?

A. Well peanuts are a high protein nut. The others are too, but peanuts are really a legume and not a real true nut. Also there is a mould called aflotoxin that is characteristic of it. Unless you have a good source or peanuts and check each one before you eat them, or get a good organic source where they don’t have mould on them, it's a little bit risky to do this because they use this aflotoxin as an irritant to cause cancer in laboratory animals.

Q. You’ve been talking quite a bit about pancreatin, but you haven’t said too much about HCL as a supplement.

A. HCL is a good supplement and should be used at the beginning of each meal. Maybe one HCL tablet if you tend to have a low HCL content. One or the best ways to tell when you need HCL is, if you take 5 meal and immediately have gas or burping or tend to have distress within a half hour after eating. Then you are low on HCL. This is about the only way you can tell without testing, unless someone else knows a better way. Then you can take 1 HCL tablet. If you get too much HCL you risk getting ulcers, upset stomachs towards the other way

A. You still find that you are worried about cancer. We find that all the people who have had cancer and feel well now, have generally changed their pattern of living and sometimes you can have a cancer (and it's very rare), that the shock of surgery turns the pancreas on full blast and it goes on for the rest of your life and you don't have to worry about it. But by far, most people who have had cancerous tumors removed still have one or two in the body growing. Probably less than l0% who have had a cancer operation are completely free of cancer. If you feel good and have no problems, take 3 pancreas tablets after each meal and forget it. I'd go on and be happy.

Q. One Person has a question concerning embryonal tumors, Is your treatment also effective with this type of tumor?

A. If they are thinking about the same thing I am, normally this work good with this type of tumor.

Q. There is one woman 88 years old who is rather anxious to do something. She wonders if she can undertake your particular test and treatment.

A. Age level doesn't make any difference to us. It doesn't hurt to eat good no matter how old you are. And something like my grandfather he was told he would die if he didn't give up biscuits. Well he said he would just as soon die. So he never did change. He lived to be quite old. We can't see anybody without the request of their physician, so if the patient is willing to co-operate and take a tough program and diet, she might live to l00 but she may not want to.

Q. One person has been told by his doctors that 3/4 of his liver has been 'shot'. Do you have a reassuring word for him?

A. Yes, that’s just how mine was. They told me my liver was gone and I'm still kicking. We find that a lot of times the tumor is on the liver and not in the liver, destroying the liver itself. It's around the liver itself, and the liver tissue is not so badly damaged, as is this tumor growing adjacent too and mingled with the liver tissue. If it's the liver itself that's completely destroyed and eaten up, if 3/4 of it is gone, it is going to be a problem. The only precaution you have in this case is if dissolving of the tumor is slow enough so that it doesn't overload your body with toxins. Just so you keep it dissolving just a little bit. It's the rate of dissolving that counts. Why most of the deaths that we had originally were involved with dissolving the tumor too fast. We dissolved them too fast until we learned better.

Q. Quite a few questions emphasizing the importance of Vitamin E and Vitamin C and perhaps the other B Vitamins in combatting cancer. You have made very little mention of these. Would you comment please, doctor.

A. Whenever your cell finally has nutrition brought to it and it gets all it wants and it starts dumping out all it's poisons, Vitamin C helps get rid of the poison at the cell level. It breaks down the electromagnetic field force around each individual cell and massive doses of Vitamin C are called for, for a couple of month's, it will help get rid of the toxins and start the flow of toxins out of the body. It's OK to take Vitamin C in good size doses. Vitamin E----a lot of the researchers hold to the Otto Warburg theory of oxidation. You have a lot of oxygen in your system. Oxygen utilization helps cancer. If you hold to that theory, Vitamin is a good oxydizing agent and helps in the utilization of oxygen. In that respect Vitamin E can help. Vitamin E can help in this respect and it won't hurt. We don't recommend a lot of Vitamin E because if you are really tough, like some Texans who can take it, the 14 grain cereal has a lot of Vitamin E in it and you don't have to take any pills with it. If you can't stand the 14 grain cereal, then Vitamin E is real fine. Dr. Shute helps stroke victims with a build-up of sometimes 3,600 units a day. The average person he recommends about 1,200 units for the male, and about 800 for the female. Vitamin B? The B complex is good. Of course if you eat the l4grain cereal, you will get a lot of the B, and in the right balance. When you get the B complex out of balance, that is when you get into trouble. If you take too much B6, then you will deplete your body of B2 and then you'll have the nervous rigors. So this is a problem. You need well-balanced B Vitamins. You get it in yeast and grains. You can take the B Vitamins, maybe B1 you can take separately, but other wise I would make sure I had a B complex instead of individual Vitamin B's. Liver is a good thing for B complex. The 14 grain cereal is listed in our cancer book. You can call IACVF and they can give it to you because it takes a long time to write it all down.

Q. There have been many questions concerning the elimination of the mucous on the villi. They don't understand.

Q. Where can you get them? What company makes them?

A. I think you can get some of these in health food stores, but most of these companies that make the enzymes from pineapple and from papaya, particularly pineapple are prescription items that your doctor will have. There are several of them. They use them in medicine to reduce swelling and surgeons use them. They are amylase. There are 2 or 3 brand names but they are all prescription items. You can ask your doctor and he will look it up for you.

A. Comfrey and pepsin is made by the Standard Process Laboratories.

Q. Where is it?

A. They have an office here in town. (Ed. note - They moved their office recently to Watertown, Mass.) You have to have a doctor to get it.

Q. 'Will vegetable enzymes do as good as pancreatin?

A. There are papaya enzymes in some of the health food preparations. But you cannot take a vegetable enzyme and expect to cure yourself of cancer because it just won't work. But it may help to clear the mucous and a lot of the health food company’s papaya may help clear the mucous, but we don’t have the data to be sure this will happen.

A. As I said, all the colonics in the world will not help your small intestine. There are 33 feet of small intestine there and a colonic only washes out the last few feet of the large intestine. Besides that, you have a valve. the ilcocaecal valve at the point of the appendix, where the water does not go back up the small intestine, even with a high colonic.

Q. There is one person here who says enemas are not possible with her or him. Are they absolutely essential?

A. If for some reason you can absolutely not have an enema, you should take a good laxative and keep the stool quite loose and keep the flow of poisons out of your system. Keep the poisons out of the colon-if you absolutely cannot take an enema, you can only do the next best thing.

A. The Bentonite is a good detoxification of the intestinal tract and helps pull poison out of the system and is a real good thing, but it doesn't destroy the mucous. It does destroy poisons, etc. Mucous is actually caked on there somewhat like Elmer's glue. When it’s on there, it just has to be digested off.

Q. Now long does it take?

A. Like I said you take comfrey and pepsin after each meal for 3 months. Next year we take it, 2 after each meal for 3 weeks. Acidolphilus does not remove the mucous from the smell intestine. It keeps the acidolphilin balance and does a lot of other wonderful things. but it doesn't do the mucous much good.

Q. Cannot be heard.

A. We’re getting a question on milk here. Now milk, as I said before, is made for 1,000 lb. babies that moo. Whenever we got our babies, (we have 4 adopted children), we didn’t give them cow's milk. We got 4 goats. They had milk until they were 3. We don't let our children have milk. Milk is not good. You can use a little yoghurt. One of the reasons we got involved with milk is because pasteurized milk, the way I see it, being an orthodontist, is one of the causes of crooked teeth. If children drink it their jaws become depleted of calcium. Pasteurized milk is one of the biggest causes of orthodontic problems plus other things, but this is a significant factor.

Q. How can you get the cereal down without a little milk?

A. I didn’t use milk at all. Sometimes you can use pure cream diluted with water. I just eat the cereal raw. Just gobble it down. Some people can't stand it. A lot of people put it in a blender and make it thin enough so they can blend a banana with it and they just drink it down.

Q. What protein do you give your own Children?

A. You can give them meat and other things unless they have a cancer condition. If you really want to do a good job of feeding your children, you get into the vegetarian system. But you really have to know what you are doing if you eliminate meat from your diet. Of course I’m not a member of either church, but there are two primary groups in the United States that do a beautiful job teaching people the proper system of vegetarianism and that is the Mormon and the Seventh Day Adventist Church. They have good teachings and a lot of good books in relation to diet. Don’t be a vegetarian unless you know what you are doing.

A. Soy bean milk is OK in infants, I imagine. But don't ever feed kids baby food. All it does is make Gerbers & Beechnut and all the others a lot of money. And also makes the Allergist a great deal of money. The Pediatrician will tell you to feed your child meat at the age of three weeks and that’s the most ridiculous thing that has ever been devised by human beings. The intestinal tract isn't even adequately formed by that time and you give a child meat from a jar at the age of three weeks. I've seen mothers brag that their babies ate meat at three weeks. Then they begin to nurse their asthma and allergies. The intestinal tract is kind of big and sieve-like and these meat particles in great globs fall through the intestinal tract and get into the blood stream. You form all the antigens and allergies. This is a terrible thing to happen to a child. You give a child goat milk until they are at least six months old and then give them table food after that and don't give them any meat until they are nine months old.

Q. There are questions by people who are under other therapies such as cobalt or Laetrile. They want to know if there are any contra-indications to continue their present therapy and going on your program?

A. None whatsoever. It doesn't hurt to eat something ---you might just as well eat the right things. No matter whether you are taking 5 F.U, Laetrile or cobalt or whether you are going to the hospital for surgery, if you eat well, your chance of recovery is so much greater. If you are going to have surgery for a malignant condition you should take your pancreatic enzymes for about 3 weeks in advance of surgery because this will help prevent the spread. A lot of people think if they are going to do surgery it is going to spread the malignancy. But if you have a good pancreatic supply of enzymes in your blood level at the time of surgery, you are not going to spread the malignancy and don't forget the recommendations of your physician for surgery if you have a good pancreatic enzyme supply.

Q. Here are two questions, apparently dissimilar, but relating to the same thing: This person has finished her cobalt treatments several months ago but her pain continues. This other person has just been operated on for cancer of the breast, radical mastectomy, she says I felt marvellous before the operation, why did I not feel sick. There are two questions---one felt wonderful and one felt miserable.

A. Well the cancer can grow without feeling sick, particularly the fast growing type. Sometimes your pancreas fails all of a sudden. and your' cancer grows rapidly. Sometimes your body isn't depleted and you don’t get a run-down condition before the cancer. The easiest way doctors find cancer is in the voice box, the breast and in the bladder, at the real early stages. If they can find it early and get rid of it, why that's good and you generally don't feel bad. It’s the slow growing hidden ones that you can't see, and that don’t interfere with your functions, that grow for several years. Now, the first part of the question?

Q. This person was in much pain and feeling miserable and had cobalt and is still feeling miserable.

A. Cobalt, a lot of times after treatment in slow growing

Q. What I was intending was the contrast between these two patients.

A. Well, in a cobalt situation or any other situation, one feels bad for a long time at first. If it is generally a slow growing thing were they both breast cancer?

Q. It doesn’t say.

A. If you feel bad for a long time and in a lot of pain..….Pain you must remember and if you don't take note: the most painful thing that happens to a human being is stretching syndrome. The bladder is the only tissue made that was designed to stretch. Any other tissue is painful. The most painful thing that happens to a human being is stretching. Whenever you have a lot of toxins in your body, whether it is from cobalt, or anything that causes toxins to develop in your body, they are stored in the lymph system. The lymph system stretches and stretches and keeps filling and filling with this debris and junk. The more it stretches, the more pain you have. This is normally what happens. In this case it maybe where the nerve itself is being pinched from some other cause. The most frequent cause of pain in cancer is stretching of the lymph system. When the lymph system is quite stretched and gorged with debris material, whether it is growing cancer or dissolved cancer, it is quite painful. When you detoxify the body, it is the best relief of pain. If it's from a toxic condition or if it's from some other cause ---they will have to find the basic cause ---whether it's from a nerve injury or something like that or a nerve impingement of some kind.

Q. May I ask a question of the pancreatic enzyme that is used to dissolve the cancer? Has there ever been any radioactive labelling of it to see if it dissolves the cancer?

Q. May I ask a related question? You have published a book, have you published any other literature or articles?

A. We have published articles about other things but not in relation to health. We are ready to do some when we get a publisher.

There are other methods of determing whether there is radioactive utilization of pancreatic enzymes. Anyone who wants to do that can. We haven't actually done radioactive studies ourself. But that’s not the only requirement or criteria to see whether it works or not.

Q. Where have you come up with the relationship?

A. There are many things that have been written since 1900 about this and you can get the information through the International Association of Cancer Victims and Friends.

Q. Would you comment about the foods. The contrast between the organic foods and foods that are obtained from the supermarket. Do those from the supermarket impede recovery terribly?

A. It is almost impossible to have all organic food. In many parts of the country there is not enough available. You are going to have to use supermarket foods. It is better to use organic foods. Even organic foods are grown next door to the people who spray and pollution from the air also drop on organic food. We tested food and found that even organic foods are highly contaminated and so finally we get as much organically grown food as we can. At our house we always process our food properly, whether it's supermarket or organically grown, by cleaning it as best as we can. There are a lot of cleaning devices. The air force found that if they put a teaspoon of clorox in a sink full of water and soak all their vegetables in that and in addition to that, we use BasicH or some of the detergent cleaners which come from the health food store, specifically to clean vegetables. Some people even use a weak solution of hydrochloric acid. You can consult with your local health food store. They have a lot of products with which you can clean the food.

Q Does soaking foods destroy many of the vitamins and minerals?

A. A lot of people say whenever you clean a food, you lose a lot of minerals but you don't, as long as the cell walls are intact.

Q. Gerson said something about the ground - that it was different in organically grown food.

A. It is always better to have organically grown food - there is no question about that. But if you can't, you just can't.

Q. There is a question concerning almonds. Whenever using almond or apricot kernels, do they need to be blanched and the skins taken off?

A. We never found it necessary to. There are all kinds of fads and fanaticisms. A lot of people feel that the skins of almonds have too much tannic acid. We don't hold to this. We give almonds for the protein content and so if you want to blanch them its OK. I myself use them with the skins on.

Q. What progress in dietary therapy did you observe at the ACS conference this week?

A. I don't associate with those boys too much. My thing is getting well.

A. I think eggs are a good food. I don't eat them often. The research is that they are good food. The best way to use eggs is to soft boil them in the shell. Dr. Cheraskin, a well known authority, thinks it's baloney about the cholesterol. He used 700 dentists and had them eat 2 eggs a day and their cholesterol count decreased.

Q. Question is about cellular therapy.

A. Cellular therapy is the implanting of embryo cells in the body. When the pancreas fails from blood clots, etc, you need to re-grow the pancreas and this would help in a great number of cases. Cellular therapy seems to work. We tested people we didn’t know had cellular therapy and it works. We did a double blind test on cellular therapy and it works well. You don't have one form of treatment - and just before one is dying of cancer you have to do more than one thing. You have to do several things at once.

Q. Can polyps in the rectum be treated nutritionally if they are malignant or otherwise or is surgery ok?

A. That depends on your doctor. Surgery is not a bad thing and sometimes it is helpful. I would make sure to change the diet and be in good sound health and then if you have surgery it is that much better. Sometimes surgery is indicated.

Q. Should white sugar be taken off the market?

A. Yes, it ought to be against the law - and white bread also.

Q. Can you explain more about low-blood sugar?

A. Low blood sugar is a malfunction and if you can correct these things you can pretty well wipe out low blood sugar:

2. pancreatic failure

1. liver failure

4 mineral balance

5. circulation

Whenever you have all of these things working well, you are not going to have low blood sugar.

Q. What about mixing vegetables and fruits?

A. There are a lot of fads about mixing vegetables and fruits in the same meal. There is a controversy about this. The researchers who are working on it say if you take enough enzymes, then you can. I don’t recommend myself that you eat raw fruit and fresh vegetables at the same meal. Most of the researchers don't hold to that. They feel it is alright to mix it up any way you want to as long as you take enough enzymes to digest it properly.

Q. Do you consider 1200 units of vitamin D a small dosage?

A. Yes.

Q How do you explain the coffee enema stimulating the liver?

A. The coffee is absorbed in the large intestine. The large intestine absorbs liquid. That is its function. It goes directly to the portal vein, to the liver immediately.

Q. If someone has a cyst in the breast and wants to nurse the baby, could this have an effect on the growth of the cancer?

Q. I don't mean transmitting it. I mean can the patient get worse?

A. If you take your nutritional supplements, your enzymes, I don't think it will make any difference.

Q. Do you have any information on feeding citrus pulp to cattle be cause citrus pulp has vitamin C and pectin and pectin kills undesirable intestinal bacteria that causes diarrhea in cattle? And about giving cattle linseed oil and linseed meal?

A. Well, linseed oil is of course flax, and the rind of grapefruit is good. Citrus pulp and the effect it has on anybody is a good question because we are all interested in stroke. We find that the pulp of grapefruit and the bottom and peel, the bioflavanoids, and the rutin, which is what is involved here, and what they are getting at, we find that this is good for the blood vessels and if you have blood vessels that are fragile and tend to a stroke, or you have varicose veins, you need the bioflavanoids and rutin. This strengthens the blood vessels themselves to make them more elastic and they don't fracture as easily. Therefore, you don't have so many strokes or varicose veins. This is the advantage we find clinically.

Q. You recommend buttermilk and yoghurt. Should it be raw?

A. What we are interested in in buttermilk and yoghurt is keeping the intestinal bacteria count at a high level. You can take this in a tablet form from the drug store or from the health food store or you can take it in culture form from the health food store. It is better to use it in culture form than to use buttermilk, but buttermilk is more readily available than yoghurt because there aren't health food stores in every part of the country.

Q. How much buttermilk?

A. You shouldn't drink over I glass of buttermilk a day.

Q. Is it possible to care for an enlarged thyroid nutritionally?

A. An enlarged thyroid is generally due to a bad mineral balance and it is called hyperplasia. The cells are screaming for some-thing to eat and they are just enlarging and enlarging because they are trying to get something to eat. If you give them a good nutritional program generally, they will probably normalize. Chances are greater that they will than that they won't.

Q. If a parson gets up in the morning and breaks out in perspiration and has a terrible sensation, like a blood sensation, could this be toxins?

A. We don't diagnose or treat anybody. Normally your autonomic nervous system is out of balance and you have sweats, etc. This is sometimes caused by a great number of worms in the body or the nervous system is out of balance. Or you could be suffering from hypoglycemia or hyperinsulinism. Those things are characteristic and you need to have your doctor help you find the reasons for those.

Q. If you are taking pancreatin and dissolving toxins and not taking enemas, will the poisons eventually come out of your system or will they stay there forever?

A. They will eventually get out of the system. It is not wise to dump all the poison into your system without helping your body take care of it, but whenever we say coffee enema, we insult moat people. If you can't take or don't want to take it. you can just taugh it out.

Q. Would your therapy help leukemia?

A. This therapy works quite wall - it has in the past. In 3 or 4 weeks in a leukemic patient. It should show a marked change where you are practically over it. If you do it right. If it doesn't work that rapidly, you know that you have a bad amount of malignancy somewhere else in the body too. Leukemia is no different than other forms of cancer. Just in a different place. Hodgkins disease is the same thing. Hodgkins is the second easiest to cure. Leukemia is the easiest. Bone, brain and skin are the hardest. Not really hard--slower. It depends upon the circulation at the site of the tumor. It doesn't matter whether it is one or another kind of cancer. It depends upon the amount of circulation available to get the material to the site of the tumor in significant amounts.

Q. Would you say something more about how to clean the vegetables? How do you use Clorox?

A. At our house we take Basic H, put 2 or 3 drops of that and a teaspoon of Clorox in the water. We let the vegetables soak for 30 minutes. We drain this off, fill the sink full of clear water and let vegetables soak for 30 minutes. Then they can be eaten.

Q. Do you get all the DDT out?

A. No, I doubt if you get it all out. That is the best you can do in our society.

Q. You mentioned that some patients died because the tumors were dissolving too rapidly; then you changed the system. What change did you make and how did you control the rate of detoxification?

A. You take your program until you feel sick, complete loss of appetite, then we tell the patient to give up the pancreatic enzymes completely for 5 days and then start again. Maybe they can go ten days and then stop again. You can judge the toxic condition of your body by the way you feel. And this is the way you are going to have to regulate it. You should do it until you feel bad and then just stop it. Wait awhile and start in again.

Q. Do eggs give you cancer?

A. No.

Q. What is the best way to get calciuni

A. Calcium is good in the body. Milk depletes the body of calcium. You get calcium from carrot juice and vegetables. That is the best way.

Q. Would you consider something unorthodox, like Laetrile?

A. If you have enough money and want to take Laetrile it’s alright. There's nothing wrong with it. It is bad-mouthed by the medical profession because they do not have financial control over it.

Q. A lady who is not allowed to eat raw food because she has a bad condition in the colon. What can she do.

A. The cooked vegetable you are talking about we mentioned twice now. You have to take two things if you can not eat raw vegetables: 1) You take vegetables in the form of juice. 2) You take a large amount of enzymes.

Q. What kind of salt should one use?

A. Sea salt.

Q. What can be done for pyorrhoea?

A. Pyorrhoea is the first stage of arthritis. First you have pyorrhoea, then osteoporosis and then you get arthritis. Mineral balance is off and the calcium-phosphorous balance is off. First of all the mineral balance should be built up and get the calcium-phosphorous balance corrected. What can be done basically is take blackstrap molasses and then take Hydrochloric acid at the beginning of each meal and eat a lot of raw food.

THE END

[Cancer]