[The Stationary Assemblage Point (SAP) is the focal point of the energy body.  It should be in (or near) the centre of the chest but any stress, be it emotional traumas, violence, intimidation, giving birth, accidents, as well as drug use (illegal and legal), can shift it off centre and it can even move into organs like the liver and heart.  Each position around the centre, be it left, right, up or down produces a certain feeling and thinking associated with that position see.   It can be likened to tuning a radio, but instead of getting a poor reception you get a poor or 'off-centre' feeling and thinking.  This is where the saying 'centred' comes from.  It can be shifted back to centre with a crystal or some people can move it back with their will.  This validates the teachings in Carlos Castaneda's books.  Over 10 years ago Harley Swiftdeer Reagan, who was Don Genaro's apprentice, taught Jon Whale how to shift the SAP. 

My wife had depression after her father died (after alzheimer's which is traumatic to witness) and not long after birth of kid, so may have been either or combination of both incidents.

Not sure depression is the right term but she had thoughts of wanting to stab people, and was off to the doc to get some drugs. Hadn't noticed anything amiss until she mentioned that, I have to admit.

Anyway a shift cured her completely. Right as rain, and she has even forgotten the incident I think.

My first wife also, I told her some nasty Vedic prediction about the kids dying, she let out a cry (big mistake I realised then!) of shock which shifted the AP as she was feeling pretty dire for a long time until it was shifted back. Good example of how words can shift it. I'll have to ask her again of the symptoms but she was thinking about drugs also.

I would be interested to read any evidence you have for this SAP.

I collated it here http://www dot whale.to/b/ap.html

Book and interviews.  I know a few who can shift it, one in London. 

As whale was considered buy the moderators to be in violation of the rules - (no evangelism) keep it science - his post have been locked and his posting privileges revoked.

The posts have been left as a reminder to others that we support scientific discussions that are on the level of dignified discussions rather than of the "it lies, lies, I tell you" type.

Are you saying that (1) small pox didn't kill people in the first place, (2) that it is still killing people or (3) that it was spontaneously wiped out by some simultaneous change conicident with the introduction of vaccination but unrelated? Please explain, ideally citing your sources.

Smallpox vax never saved a single life, huge epidemics followed compulsory vaccination which was why they repealed that law and probably why we don't have that here now.

So whatever got rid of smallpox it certainly wasn't vaccination--that just prolonged the agony.  Sanitation was the main factor, overcrowding, poor diet, poverty etc.

Alfred Wallace proved that with government statistics, also over 90% of smallpox victims had been vaccinated. His book is here: whale.to/vaccine/wallace/book1.html

"Whether we examine the long-continued records of London mortality, or those of modern registration for England, Scotland, and Ireland; whether we consider the "control experiment" or crucial test afforded by unvaccinated Leicester, or the still more rigid test in the other direction, of the absolutely revaccinated Army and Navy, the conclusion is in every case the same: that vaccination is a gigantic delusion; that it has never saved a single life; but that it has been the cause of so much disease, so many deaths, such a vast amount of utterly needless and altogether undeserved suffering, that it will be classed by the coming generation among the greatest errors of an ignorant and prejudiced age, and its penal enforcement the foulest blot on the generally beneficent course of legislation during our century."--Wallace

Secondly, Leicester proved by itself the fallacy of vaccination, over its 30 year experiment of not vaccinating--eg it lost 2,000 less infants under 5 in its non-vaccinating years.

"The town of Leicester rejected vaccination in favour of sanitation. Her experience during the past fifty years makes nonsense of the claims of the pro-vaccinists. When her population was thoroughly vaccinated she suffered severely from smallpox. As vaccination declined to one per cent of the infants born, smallpox disappeared altogether."---- Lilly Loat [Book 1951] The Truth About Vaccination and Immunization

It was all well documented by its Chief Sanitation officer, JT Biggs in his 1912 book, see quotes whale.to/a/biggsext.html

As for smallpox, it was considered a slight disease in 17 century under the care of Thomas Sydenham who only lost 2% of his cases.  Likewise a similar case mortality was found under naturopaths and homeopaths (0%), while under Allopathy it was 18%, rising to 26% when vaccination rates were highest.

In times when poverty was rife.

"Compare these well vaccinated countries with Australia, the least vaccinated country in the world. In 134 years, not one-fifth of the children born have been vaccinated. Yet only three Australian children under five have died of that disease. In the last 50 years, no child under five has died of smallpox, and in the whole of her history, less than one person per annum has died of it, although allowing five years protective period, only 2 per cent, of her population have ever been "protected." [1936 Pamphlet] The Case AGAINST Vaccination By M.  BEDDOW BAYLY M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P.

 

"probably why we don't have that here now."
The reason we don't have a law about smallpox vaccination is that the vaccination wiped it out (or something else did, at the same time and in the same places).
Most of your data seems to have come from before the 20th century; do you have any data that relates to experience since the virus was identified as the cause?
At least part of the discrepancy between what you report and the commonly accepted belief is that smallpox exists in 2 forms; one has a lethality below 2% ; the other above 30%.

In any event, smallpox has been eliminated, it used to cause death but it doesn't any more. If that elimination of the disease was due to vaccination then the vaccine has clearly saved lives.
If it wasn't the vaccine that eliminated the disease then what was it?
Obviously things like poverty are a compounding factor in this disease but we haven't eliminated poverty so that's not the reason.

What eliminated smallpox?

"What eliminated smallpox?"

I think it was the decline in the older vaccines which were the main cause of spreading it, other than that it was the decline in poverty in industrial countries, sanitation, diet, overcrowding

You can see the effect of vaccination in the Phillipines, this is also 20 cent, during my fathers childhood:

Smallpox Vaccination in the Phillipines 1905-1920

In the Philippines, prior to US takeover in 1905, case mortality from smallpox was about 10%.  In 1905, following the commencement of systematic vaccination enforced by the US Government, an epidemic occurred where the case mortality ranged from 25% to 50% in different parts of the islands. In 1918-1919 with over 95% of the population vaccinated, the worst epidemic in the Philippine's history occurred resulting in a case mortality of 65%. The highest percentage occurred in the capital Manila, the most thoroughly vaccinated place. The lowest percentage occurred in Mindanao, the least vaccinated place owing to religious prejudices. Dr V de Jesus, Director of Health, stated that the 1918-1919 smallpox epidemic resulted in 60,855 deaths. The 1920 Report of the Philippines Health Service contains the following comments:

        "From the time in which smallpox was practically eradicated In the city of Manila to the year 1918 (about 9 years) in which the epidemic appears certainly In one of its severest forms, hundreds after hundreds of thousands of people were yearly vaccinated with the most unfortunate result that the 1918 epidemic looks prima facie as a flagrant failure of the classic Immunization towards future epidemics".

         

        "We were fortunate enough to address their own medical (and) health officials where we reminded them of the incidence of smallpox in formerly "immunized" Filipinos. We invited them to consult their own medical records and asked them to correct us if our own facts and figures disagreed. No such correction has been forthcoming, and we can only conclude that between 1918-1919 there were 112,549 cases of smallpox notified, with 60,855 deaths. Systematic (mass) vaccination started in 1905, and since its introduction case mortality increased alarmingly. Their own records comment that "The mortality is hardly explainable."---Dr Kalokerinos (Second Thoughts on Disease by Kalokerinos & Dettman)


 

As whale was considered buy the moderators to be in violation of the rules - (no evangelism) keep it science - his post have been locked and his posting privileges revoked.

The posts have been left as a reminder to others that we support scientific discussions that are on the level of dignified discussions rather than of the "it lies, lies, I tell you" type.

Measles deaths had declined by 99.4% (!) before vaccination,  so there isn't any any evidence vaccination played any part in deaths decline.  MMR vaccine is obviously killing more kids now than measles would be doing, with or without the vaccine.

whale.to/vaccines/measles.html


 

whale,
you make a bold statement, may i ask what evidence you have for it? Where may i find credible data to show that MMR vaccine is causing the deaths of children?

FOIA shows in 1990, in the UK, there were approximately 70 deaths associated with triple vaccines (DTP and MMR), the UK Gov' has paid out for MMR deaths, and one media report mentioned  26 deaths.

About 3% of vaccine reactions are reported so that 70 would be pretty accurate, conservative est if anything.  More DPT than MMR.

"Currently the chance of anyone dying of natural measles in England and Wales if there were no vaccinations is less than 1 in 55 million.  I have hard scientific fact to back that up if anyone wants it.  The chance of being struck by a bolt of lightning is over 30-60 times higher."--Clifford Miller

Pretty obvious, and since vaccination didn't do anything regarding measles deaths (deaths had declined by 99.4% before vaccination--gov stats), it compounds the insult.

Then we have all the MMR autism, asthma, etc.

For a disease that is harmless under proper management.  And more than 50% of measles deaths are in vaccinated kids, or kids under the age of vaccination.



 

A few things.
1. Please give us more coherent information. Measles death, and deaths attributed to vaccination for measles, in several years both before and after the introducion of the vaccine, stating clearly the point at which the vaccination was introduced and the percentage take-up rate. This information is presumably available since you must be getting the above stats from somewhere.
2. Of course most measles deaths are in vaccinated kids or those to young to have been vaccinated. That's most kids (or was until the MMR scare). Also, if we take the assumption for a moment that the vaccination is effective then you'd expect it to radically lower the risk even to unvaccinated kids so long as the level of immunity of the population is high enough to curtail rapid spread of the infection.
3. It would be interesting to know (if harder to find out) how many children are permanently damaged by complications of measles (not only the death rate is relevant).

The evidence linking MMR to autism has been discredited. No, really. The lab which was supposed to have found evidence of measles in the guts of the children was riddled with incompetence. Not to mention contaminents. http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/3562/ (Not because I expect whale to believe that, but since the autism hysteria is all over the place, and the google listing for this forum is very high, I want to get that in there for the benefit of any anxious parents who drop by...)

Given the fact that Britain's total population is around 70 million, and most of those are people who have already acquired an immunity to the disease (even in the absence of vaccination, then through previous exposure to the disease), then if your 1 in 55 million figure is correct, we should expect less that one child a year to die of measles prior to vaccination.

Although you are correct that the figures were falling (no doubt due to better nutrition, and better palliative care) even before the advent of vaccination, but was still around 15 to 20 a year.

http://www.whale.to/a/miller_c.html

There is a story in the telegraph of 18 unexplained deaths in a 4 year period that occurred shortly after vaccination (which is only an average of 4.5 deaths per year), but this covers all vaccinations, not only measles (and so has to be compared to all the deaths from the combined diseases in the absence of the vaccinations):

 
You also suggest that only 3% of vaccines reactions are reported, but then make the huge leap to suggesting that one can extrapolate from this to the number of deaths (the vast majority of adverse reactions are not fatal, just as the vast majority of incidents of the disease they are supposed to protect against are not fatal).

I am not sure what your baseline for the 99.4% decline in measles fatalities is - since there were 17 measles fatalities reported (probably an under-reporting, as you are quick to point out, all health statistics always are), that means you are using a baseline of over 2,800 measles deaths a year in some previous time (this may be plausible in Victorian times, where poor nutrition could have compounded the problems of the disease itself, but I would nonetheless like to know the baseline you are using).

Yes, 2 deaths now.  And those could be saved if the Allopaths used Vitamin C.  They certainly wouldn't be saved by vaccination.  It is revealing that you can never get vaccination status from the gov, undoubtedly because those deaths would be vaccinated or under the age of vaccination. 

The 99.4% figure is from 1901/2 averaged (c. 11,000), to the year before vax, 1968 (c.99).  So it would be brass neck to say vaccination did anything, and you never hear anything about the real factor, the 99.4%, that virtually eliminated deaths.

Likewise a similar factor eliminated smallpox.

VAERS reports 7 deaths a year USA (1990-1994), and you agree reactions are reported at 3%, yet deaths would bear no relation to that 3%.  We don't know the exact % but 3% is the only figure we have to go on, and we don't know morbidity figures as they don't keep them, only deaths which should be tied to that.

Any study of vaccine history would show you the figure is pretty high, in 1880 smallpox vax was causing 25,000 infant deaths, in 1921, 6,000 according to the NAVL who had quite a few MDs on their board. In Leicester the stats show 2,000 less deaths when they rejected vaccination over their compulsory vax years, so you can see where the 25,000 figure could have come from.

I think anyone could say more than 2 are killed by MMR, and if FOIA shows in 1990, in the UK, there were approximately 70 deaths associated with triple vaccines (DTP and MMR) then it is more than that.  Many parents don't want to consider vaccines killed their child as it was a decision of theirs which must be hard to come to terms with. 

"AT LEAST 26 families claim their children died as a result of the controversial measles, mumps and rubella jab....In some cases the Government has awarded parents up to £100,000 under its 1979 Vaccine Damage Payment Act. In others, post mortem reports concluded the jab was the most likely cause of death. Despite this, the Department of Health insists no child has ever died from MMR."

'The evidence linking MMR to autism has been discredited. No, really. The lab which was supposed to have found evidence of measles in the guts of the children was riddled with incompetence. Not to mention contaminents.'

MMR causes autism, but the mercury ones more so, but vaccines are usually given together.  All of the studies showing MMR to be safe have been discredited.

There are thousands of parents who have observed autism after vaccines.  Any normal drug other than vaccination and it would have been withdrawn long ago.  If vaccination injuries were tried by Juries vaccination would have died out years ago, which was why they blocked jury trial.

Don't forget the last MMR was withdrawn.

and we have yet to find an unvaccinated kid with regressive autism, and Dan Olmsted never found one in unvaccinated Amish and First Homested kids.

"I would also be particularly interested to learn of any documented cases of completely unvaccinated children who have later dramatically and inexplicably regressed into autism after a normal infancy. To date, no such case has ever been identified to me."--David Thrower

"They claim that autism naturally occurs at about 18 months, when the MMR is routinely given, so the association is merely coincidental and not causal.  But the onset of autism at 18 months is a recent  development.  Autism starting at 18 months rose very sharply in the mid-1980s, when the MMR vaccine came into wide use.  A coincidence?  Hardly!"--Dr Rimland

 "I have not seen autism with the Amish," said Dr. Frank Noonan, a family practitioner in Lancaster County, Pa., who has treated thousands of Amish for a quarter-century.  "You'll find all the other stuff, but we don't find the autism. We're right in the heart of Amish country and seeing none, and that's just the way it is."
       In Chicago, Homefirst Medical Services treats thousands of never-vaccinated children whose parents received exemptions through Illinois' relatively permissive immunization policy. Homefirst's medical director, Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, told us he is not aware of any cases of autism in never-vaccinated children; the national rate is 1 in 175, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "We have a fairly large practice," Eisenstein told us. "We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we've taken care of over the years, and I don't think we have a single case of autism in children delivered by us who never received vaccines. "We do have enough of a sample," Eisenstein said. "The numbers are too large to not see it. We would absolutely know. We're all family doctors. If I have a child with autism come in, there's no communication. It's frightening. You can't touch them. It's not something that anyone would miss."
       Dr. Jeff Bradstreet, a Florida family practitioner with ties to families who homeschool their children for religious reasons, told Age of Autism he has proposed such a study in that group. "I said I know I can tap into this community and find you large numbers of unvaccinated homeschooled," said Bradstreet, "and we can do simple prevalence and incidence studies in them, and my gut reaction is that you're going to see no autism in this group."

I would post URLs but I can't for some reason.

"I think that the biological case against Thimerosal is so dramatically overwhelming anymore that only a very foolish or a very dishonest person with the credentials to understand this research would say that Thimerosal wasn’t most likely the cause of autism."--- Interview of Dr. Boyd E. Haley by Teri Small:



 

The numbers to find are not "how many died as a result of the vaccine vs how many died from measles?" but "how many died from the vaccine vs how many would have died if there were no vaccine and the diease were still epidemic?"
The latter is more difficult to find but it's important to note that measles and therfore serious consequences of it including death are on the increase because the fraction of children vaccinated fell following the work done by some bloke who had a patent on the single vaccine or some such.

In the meantime, perhaps you would like to justify this comment "Yes, 2 deaths now.  And those could be saved if the Allopaths used Vitamin C. "?

The numbers to find are not "how many died as a result of the vaccine vs how many died from measles?" but "how many died from the vaccine vs how many would have died if there were no vaccine and the diease were still epidemic?"

the vaccine never did anything as the death stats show, so it would have declined with or without the vaccine.  I know that is hard to accept, but your belief in it is just that--a false belief.

The latter is more difficult to find but it's important to note that measles and therfore serious consequences of it including death are on the increase because the fraction of children vaccinated fell following the work done by some bloke who had a patent on the single vaccine or some such.

It never did anything. 

lets just lay that Wakefield lie to rest:

"As for the assertion that Dr Wakefield tried to make a personal profit from manufacturing a vaccine in competition to the multinational drug companies, it became clear during Mr Tahan’s evidence - and that of previous witnesses - that firstly, this was not a vaccine against measles, but a therapy that might ameliorate the adverse effects caused by measles vaccine; that Dr Wakefield had actually sought partnership with pharmaceutical companies to develop the therapy and finally that all profits from the patent, had it become a viable product, would actually have gone to the Royal Free Medical School.....When Miss Smith took Tarhan through his evidence-in-chief, she clearly wanted to make it appear that Wakefield had taken out the patents on transfer factor, in order to make profit for himself. With the most reliable air, Tarhan disputed this. In fact although Dr Wakefield, exasperated with the time it might take, had moved to take out two patents himself, Tarhan was quick to point out that they were taken out either in the name of Free Medic as the UCL business venture was then known, or the Royal Free Medical School."    Dealers in Second Hand Words by Martin J Walker

In the meantime, perhaps you would like to justify this comment "Yes, 2 deaths now.  And those could be saved if the Allopaths used Vitamin C. "?

Vitamin C cures measles, so it would be hard to die from it, I would have thought?

 "Under normal conditions, healthy children do not die from or become disabled from the complications of measles and if they do, questions should be asked about their management."  ---[Letter BMJ Feb 2005. Donegan MB.]

take this quote to bed, meditate on it:

"I have myself, through Natural Hygiene, over 16 years, treated all forms and hundreds of cases of typhus and typhoid fevers, pneumonia's, measles and dysentery's, and have not lost a single patient. The same is true of scarlet and other fevers. No medicine whatever was given."----Dr Trall, 1862.

and then lets see the research to show suppressing measles is a good thing in the long term.

"Chronic tendencies, such as recurring respiratory infections, often heal after measles. Chronic health problems disappear, such as psoriasis or chronic kidney problems. The children’s hospital in Basle (Switzerland) used to get children with chronic kidney infections to contract measles intentionally in order to heal them, up until the 1960s . Children susceptible to infections are healthier and stronger after contracting measles; the need for medical treatment clearly decreases . Children in the Third World countries are less likely to contract malaria and parasites after measles . The risk to suffer breast cancer decreases to less than half. MS is also much lower in people who had measles. Hay fever is more rare in children who have older siblings and had measles than in those who were vaccinated against measles .  A large African study showed that children who have had measles are 50% less at risk from allergies than those vaccinated,. Furthermore it is shown that experiencing measles protects from diseases of the immune system, skin diseases as well as degenerative cartilage, bone and tumourous diseases."----Anita Petek-Dimmer

"Vitamin C cures measles, so it would be hard to die from it, I would have thought?"
Yet people do, in spite of not having scurvy so they have vitamin C.

If it's true that vitamine C cures measles how come anyone gets it? Practically nobody is vitamin C deficient these days- it's dirt cheap and present in many foods. Yet people still get measles.
Reallity seems to get in the way of your theory again.

(Oh, and if you think you need the patent in you name or the cash from sales to come to your pocket in order to profit from a patent then you don't understand the politics of medicine or accademia as well as you seek to imply)

Pharma programming sure blinds people

Confusing Vitamin C levels with Vitamin C therapy.

 

"Confusing Vitamin C levels with Vitamin C therapy."
Sorry, but I can't even parse that as a sentence. Please identify the verb and, if possible its object and subject.
Anyway; I have to get up early so I'm off to bed.
 

As whale was considered buy the moderators to be in violation of the rules - (no evangelism) keep it science - his post have been locked and his posting privileges revoked.

The posts have been left as a reminder to others that we support scientific discussions that are on the level of dignified discussions rather than of the "it lies, lies, I tell you" type.

All new or newish diseases are man made, polio being the classic.  The idea that some new virus should suddenly appear out of thin air and attack children all on its own is plainly ludicrous under examination.

It is caused by poisons, vaccines like DPT, antibiotic injections  and industrial poisons, mostly DDT.

A big red flag was the fact the guy who headed up the March of Dimes used to work for the DDT manufacturer.  Pretty evil, but there you go.

The National Foundation For Infantile Paralysis (NFIP) used the "The March Of Dimes" to fund its polio research which lead to the Salk vaccine field trials in 1954. The Director Of Polio Research was Dr. Henry Kumm.  He had spent 23 years on the staff of the Rockefeller Foundation for Medical Research before joining the NFIP in July, 1951.  During World War II he had served as civilian consultant to the Surgeon General of the U.S. Army in Italy, directing field studies for the use of DDT against malarial mosquitoes in the marshes near Rome and Naples.

It managed to vanish after the vaccine came out due to the diagnosis scam--

The definition of 'epidemic' was changed from 20 cases/1000,000 to 35 cases/100,000. Pre-vaccination, cocksackie virus and aseptic meningitis were classified as polio; post-vaccination they were classified separately. In addition, non-paralytic polio cases were now reported as viral or aseptic meningitis.

"Ralf R. Scobey, M.D., president of the Poliomyelitis Research Institute. Inc. Syracuse, New York (in the Archives of Pediatrics, Sept. 1950) lists 170 diseases of polio-like symptoms and effects but with different names such as: epidemic cholera, cholera morbus, spinal meningitis, spinal apoplexy, inhibitory palsy, intermittent fever, famine fever, worm fever, bilious remittent fever, ergotism, etc. There are also such common nutritional deficiency diseases as beriberi, scurvy, Asiatic plague, pellagra, prison edema, acidosis etc."--E. McBean

common ones used now are flaccid paralysis and Chinese Paralytic syndrome.  http://www.sonic.net/melissk/404.html

Scobey and Bsikind were the 2 men of their day who pointed out the truth and now it is Jim West who also resurrected their work http://www.geocities.com/harpub/

Iron lungs--they were caused by the vaccinators fad for removing tonsils, most or all of the iron lung victims had had their tonsils removed.



 

"All new or newish diseases are man made, polio being the classic.  The idea that some new virus should suddenly appear out of thin air and attack children all on its own is plainly ludicrous under examination."
Polio was first recorded by the ancient Greeks. I presume that you are claming that they also made DDT (which isn't nice stuff I grant) or that some one has sent some back to the Greeks in a time machine.

"Iron lungs--they were caused by the vaccinators fad for removing tonsils, most or all of the iron lung victims had had their tonsils removed."
Sorry, "most" doesn't cut it. Unless you can say that absolutely all the people in iron lungs had their tonsils out then there must be another cause.
As you say, there was a fashion for taking out tonsils at the time so it's no shock at all that those in iron lungs were free of their tonsils.
It's quite likelyy that a study of university students at the time would hae shown that "most had had their tonsils out". Would this prove that a tonsillectomy will get you into college?

Polio was first recorded by the ancient Greeks. I presume that you are claming that they also made DDT (which isn't nice stuff I grant) or that some one has sent some back to the Greeks in a time machine.

It was very rare like autism (virtually unhaerd of before mass DPT vaccination).  The first epidemics coincided with the introduction of industrial chemicals and the creation of white flour.

First polio epidemic--1887 Sweden.  Patent of first pesticide sprayer---1873.  http://www.geocities.com/harpub/

"Dr. R. V. Southcott (Med. Jour. .Aust. 1953. ii. 281) believes that a child whose tonsils were removed at the usual age of 5-7 yrs suffers trauma to the nerves of the pharynx which increases susceptibility to bulbar poliomyelitis for at least ten years. In an outbreak in South Australia in 1947-48 he found that in 35 out of 39 cases of bulbar poliomyelitis the patient had been tonsillectomised)."-

Iron lung polio wasn't caused by tonsillectomy, it just decreased your ability to withstand poisons such as DDT and DPT.

 

"introduction of industrial chemicals "
Oh so here in the UK it started with the Roman invasion.

"Iron lung polio wasn't caused by tonsillectomy, it just decreased your ability to withstand poisons such as DDT and DPT."
Through what plausible mechanism?
I could be more easily be talked into believing it reduced the body's abillity to defend against an infection like polio. The reason it went out of fashion is that the purpose of the tonsils (in preventing infection) became aparent.
1887 was when the first car was produced. Are you going to blame it for polio too? What about the patent issued for earmuffs- could that have been the cause.
Could all three (those 2 and the pesticide sprayer) be a coincidence?
Perhaps it's the fact that the punch card calculator was patented that did it? Computers get the blame for lots of virus infections today.

BTW, is it just me or does just about everything get the blame for autism too?
I just wondered because white flour has been around a long time too- well before the end of the 19th cent.

yawn, you pharma boys.  I can understans why you dopn't want to be responsible for autism, running at 500,000 ASD in UK now.

"I think that the biological case against Thimerosal is so dramatically overwhelming anymore that only a very foolish or a very dishonest person with the credentials to understand this research would say that Thimerosal wasn’t most likely the cause of autism."Interview of Dr. Boyd E. Haley by Teri Small:

According to my own research, anything that affects lung function has either a beneficial or detrimental consequence depending on the humidity of the water breathed through respiration.

High humidity and cold damp weather are the most important considerations; there are statistics to prove that in the Open University Statistics Collection relating to the work of Leslie Munroe on cot deaths in river valley areas. Similar work was done on researching the incidence of multiple sclerosis in river valley areas in France again confirming that high water levels in the air has an impact on the health of the nervous system. My own take on this is that environmental factors lower resistance to infectious agents.


 

I can buy that, most farmers like their cattle sheds up high out of any damp, with a good breeze preferably, it cuts calf deaths and illness.

Two of the most important suppressed factors (mostly by ignoring) in disease infections are diet and poisons

Stephen Cooter found that the description of an acute polio virus infection is almost identical to vitamin B1 deficiency caused damage, Beri Beri. This is commonly caused by dextrose and alcohol as well as eating white rice. Polioencephalomalacia, thiamine deficiency, or PEM

Klenner, Southern Medicine & Surgery, April, 1951
"... review[ing] the findings of McCormick in 50 confirmed cases of poliomyelitis in and around Toronto, Canada, during the epidemic of 1949... families eating brown bread who came down with poliomyelitis did not develop paralysis; whereas in those families eating white bread many of the children having poliomyelitis did develop paralysis. The point here is that brown bread has 28 times more vitamin B1 than does white bread. Obviously, then, the paralysis which complicates acute poliomyelitis appears to be due to a B1 avitaminosis." http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/

Sandler found blood sugar levels protected:

"Intensive research during the past twelve years on the relationship between diet and susceptibility to infection, not only in polio but also in common respiratory infections and tuberculosis, has convinced me that the human organism can protect itself against infection virtually completely by proper nutrition."--Dr Sandler 1952 http://www dot whale.to/v/sandler.html

Dr George Starr claimed that "every case of infantile paralysis he had been able to check up on had been the victim of denatured (pasteurised) milk", and his observation that, "a child has never been known to have infantile paralysis if the nursing mother took fruit juice in the place of milk and that, similarly, no child was ever known to have infantile paralysis if fed on fruit juice instead of milk".

Dr Melvin Page D.D.S. found that when he was able to get patients to achieve a calcium level 2 1/2 times that of phosphorus, degenerative diseases disappeared. The prime agents to cause an imbalance in the phosphorus calcium ratio are animal products (meat has a 20-1 ratio) sugar and soft drinks. (The average yearly sugar intake is 110 lbs. Average soft drink intake in the USA is 1-2 cans. Soft drinks are highly acidic, about 2.5 pH. It would take 32 glasses of alkaline water of pH 10 to neutralise one glass of cola.)

I well remember lamb I had going down and looking half dead,a nd the vet giving it some B1, and it just jumped up as if risend from the dead

It is absolutely criminal the way allopathy wont use nutrients to cure diseases like polio, but allopathy just exists to sell drug company products.

And then you have the way breast milk cuts deaths by half mostly by fighting infections, my own son survived e coli due to breastfeeding.  Bottlefeeding is covertly encouraged by allopathy as they know (at the top it) provides most of their business with vaccination reactions the rest.  You can see the mindset of the top of allopathy by the way they allow Nestle to kill 1.5 million third world children every year by exporting baby milk.

Then Vitamin A etc http://www dot whale.to/a/nutrition.html

and then the suppressed cause of poisons eg polio and meningitis http://www dot whale.to/v/poisons.html

 

As whale was considered buy the moderators to be in violation of the rules - (no evangelism) keep it science - his post have been locked and his posting privileges revoked.

The posts have been left as a reminder to others that we support scientific discussions that are on the level of dignified discussions rather than of the "it lies, lies, I tell you" type.

This is another classic 'new disease' therefore on the whale definition---man made. 

You have to admire the way so many people believe in HIV when the peope who say it is the cause have never cured one single person of 'AIDS'!!  And AZT, well really.

If it was caused by a virus called HIV then Vitamin C would cure as Vitamin C is a potent agent for dealing with germs and poisons as 1,200 scientific refernces point out.

If it came over from Africa after being quite happy there for thousands of years then the more likely reason would be through monkey kidneys used to make polio vaccines.

It has been around for 30 yaers or so and I still only have met one person who died of it and that was when I played with him as a kid 40 years ago, and he was gay and keen to die apparently.  I know a hooker and she doesn't know anyone who has died from it.

I think Jon Rappoport sums it up best and it isn't pretty http://www.reviewingaids.org/awiki/index.php/Document:Depopulation_and_HIV

Funny isn't it how my whale.to links are blocked, that happened with Wikipedia too





 

"This is another classic 'new disease' therefore on the whale definition---man made."
Not by any one else's deffinition.

"You have to admire the way so many people believe in HIV when the peope who say it is the cause have never cured one single person of 'AIDS'"

I know that blowing someone's brain out with a gun will kill them- it's the cause of gunshot trauma.
Presumambly, because I can't cure them you think that it isn't the cause.
Or were you just not paying attention to the laws of logic there?

"Funny isn't it how my whale.to links are blocked, that happened with Wikipedia too"
I think it's amusing but I presume you meant funny in the sense of odd.
I dont see what's odd about it; Wiki strives to be accurate.

Wiki strives to be accurate. 

Thanks for the laugh, I spent 6 months on there, and the only thing it strives to do is promote Allopathy and suppress non-allopathic thinking.  There are 178 Allopath editors who patrol it.

I know a chemist who gave it all up and became a Natural Hygienist so there is still hope 

"He was one of my most dramatic recoveries with AIDS, and the reason I say that is that he was the most far gone. He was in the absolute, end stage -- they have that wing in the hospital where they have given up on you. You can smoke pot and do anything you want. They had given up on him."—Dr Shulze, who cured 16 from last stage full-blown AIDS. 

"I have had hundreds and hundreds of stroke cases. My methods cured them---when they were so stiff they were almost dead."---Dick Shulze, N.D.

"We’ve had numerous people diagnosed with Alzheimer’s who got better; they just come out of it; they are leading normal lives today. And then, of course, what the doctors say is it’s not Alzheimer’s. You run into that Catch-22 all the time. They say, well, it was probably just a temporary premature dementia, and they write-off the recovery to preserve their ignorance."---Dick Shulze, N.D. M.H.

 

We know what HIV is, and we are starting to understand how it works, and ways to stop it.  We know that infection with HIV can lead to AIDS.  There is no evidence that HIV was man-made.  There are millions of recorded cases of AIDS worldwide.  It's not a hoax.

I'm replying here, but this refers in a way to many of your other posts too.

Complimentary medicine has some things going for it, but it is also left open to fraud in a much greater way than conventional medicine.  In general, alternative therapists have more time to devote to each patient, and this has been shown to be beneficial through the placebo effect - conventional doctors have many more patients to get through, and so spend less time with any one individual. (not that I'm knocking the placebo effect - it's quite powerful)

Certainly, there are bad eggs amongst any group of society, and this includes doctors & alternative therapists alike

Conventional medicines must be researched, tested & licenced - a slow process, but one that means we know why a drug works, and the mechanism.  As researchers learn more, we review old conclusions in the light of new information.  Certainly this may mean that decisions made in one decade may be overturned, but this can only happen through the processes of conventional medicine.

Complimentary medicine does not need to undergo these checks.  Good marketing results in patients being given a treatment - even if there's no evidence that it works.  Basing medical decisions on anecdotal evidence means that the process of internal checks and balances cannot be in operation.  This leaves people open to all sorts of fraud, and far more worrying than falsifying test results as no-one can ever confirm that they are false.

Do you think that all scientists working in medical research are doing so for the wrong reasons?  This seems to be an undercurrent in your posts, but I may have misinterpreted.

The problem with free speech, as this thread demonstrates, is that it comes at a price.

It's certainly true that free speech comes at a price.  But in what way does this thread demonstrate it?

BenV
We know what HIV is, and we are starting to understand how it works, and ways to stop it.  We know that infection with HIV can lead to AIDS.  There is no evidence that HIV was man-made.  There are millions of recorded cases of AIDS worldwide.  It's not a hoax.

That is HIV cases which they make up out of thin air.  In the west they craeted the aids umbrella to catch (and kill) more:

"In 1984 most 'AIDS" diagnoses were based on a diagnosis of Kaposi's sarcoma (an affliction of the blood vessels) or pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (a lung disease caused by the overgrowth of a ubiquitous microbe) along with a presumption of "immune deficiency" and a presumption of retroviral infection. When the CDC expanded the list of 'AIDS-indicator diseases" in 1987, it caused an immediate boost of new AIDS cases by approximately one-third. Using the pre-1987 definition, the incidence of new 'AIDS" cases peaked in 1988, but with the net cast ever wider, incidence continued to rise ... at least for a few years. In early 1992 still more 'AIDS-indicator diseases" were added to the list, bringing the total to 29, and reducing the AIDS-construct to utter absurdity. In 1982 someone who earned an 'AIDS" diagnosis was very dose to death; after 1992 someone could acquire an 'AIDS" diagnosis without even being sick (A CD-4 cell count of less than 200 per milliliter is one of the official "AIDS-indicator diseases", although there is no reliable statistical evidence that such a count is not compatible with perfectly good health.)
    I can still remember Schmidt's contempt for the CDC's tactics in adding cervical cancer to the list in 1992. As might be expected, the revision caused an immediate rise in 'AIDS" diagnoses among women, enabling the CDC to issue press releases proclaiming that AIDS was spreading fastest among heterosexual women."---Lauritsen, John (The AIDS Cult p. 96, 97)

There is plenty of evidence HIV was man made and came out through the vaccine programme.  However I now think that was just a cover for the real racket--to kill Africans with aids drugs.

The hep B vaccine was a big givaway as to man made origins, along with the CHAAT vaccine in Africa.  You can see the game with covert-OPV genocide in Nigeria http://www dot whale.to/v/biowarfare.html

Do you think that all scientists working in medical research are doing so for the wrong reasons?  This seems to be an undercurrent in your posts, but I may have misinterpreted.

Most haven't a clue about the real politics.  The medical monopoly, the suppression of alternative medicine and the real agenda behind allopathy.

"The problem with free speech, as this thread demonstrates, is that it comes at a price."

Yes, you have to listen to the truth or at least the other side of the story which can be pretty painful if you have bought the lie and live off it.

I notice links are blocked to whale which is a half attempt to block free speech.  On Wikipedia also, it was too painful for them also. 

At the end of the day the only argument left against whale is ad hominem, paranoid etc.  Which tells a story.
 

Are you a paranoid person? do you generally feel that people are out to get you? You seem convinced that the conventional medicine establishment is against you, trying to kill people off and create diseases.

Most medical research scientists get into their field because they see that as an opportunity to help people. To use their skills to better understand how diseases work and how to tackle them. 

Conventional medicine does not suppress alternative medicine, but it frowns upon it for the reasons I have given before - it is rarely tested, backed up by anecdotal evidence and so cannot develop in the light of new discoveries.  People are free to try out alternative therapy, and many do, so it's clearly not being suppressed.

No I'm not paranoid, I just know what is going on.

If you don't you think people like me are paranoid.

we have a medical monopoly http://www dot whale.to/a/allopathy_h.html

That is a conspiracy, and you can see the 100 year old suppression of cancer therapies and knowledge http://www.whale dot to/a/cancer_c.html

Once you know allopathy exists then it is pretty obvious when only allopathic medicine gets used on the NHS, and the well documented non use of things like vitamin C

I documented many persecuted docs http://www.whale dot to/a/persecuted_doc_h.html

if you only read the media you will never hear about any of it.  I was there 12 years ago

and then you get a thing like vaccination which is so easy to shred just by statistics, and they have know it is useless and dangerous for 150 years.

They fear whale.to as it is pretty strange they blocked links to whale afore I even turned up
 

As whale was considered buy the moderators to be in violation of the rules - (no evangelism) keep it science - his post have been locked and his posting privileges revoked.

The posts have been left as a reminder to others that we support scientific discussions that are on the level of dignified discussions rather than of the "it lies, lies, I tell you" type.

Vitamin C will cure infections such as polio, discovered in 1947 by Dr Klenner MD, also meningitis, hepatitis and measles among others.  It will also prevent cot-death, discovered around 1968 by Dr Kalokerinos MD, and reverse heart disease, known for decades

I'm interested to know that cot deaths stopped in the sixties in your universe. In my world, they still happen. We also had to rely on vaccinations to get rid of polio from most of the world. I'd really like to move to a world where you can cure heart disease with lemmon juice; what planet are you on?

Hi friends,

we seem to have too many ascorbic fantasies
around this forum...
Welcome to this crazy club, whale.
First rule here (may be the only one...)
in this wonderful website should really be:
give some citation or reference for any important
point you make in your topic.
A proper respectful discussion will follow.
Cheers,

ikod  


 

I didn't say they used it, I said it was discovered by Dr Kalokerinos c. 1968, and backed up by nutritional scientists, Pauling & Stone, but ignored due to medical politics.

"Amazingly, vitamin C has actually already been documented in the medical literature to have readily and consistently cured both acute polio and acute hepatitis, two viral diseases still considered by modern medicine to be incurable." - Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD

"Cot-death is no longer a problem of clinical medicine, but is one of medical politics. We have long had the knowledge and experience as to how these unnecessary deaths can be avoided. In the meantime.. to prevent your offspring from becoming a SIDS statistic just make sure that its daily intake of ascorbate from conception on is sufficient. Under this regime the neonate is so robust and healthy that there has never been a case of SIDS among these ascorbate corrected infants, not even a case of respiratory distress during birth."---Irwin Stone, Ph.D.(1981) in "Every Second Child" by Dr Kalokerinos (1974).

You are on planet Allopathy where vaccination works, in reality it never saved a single life and killed millions eg smallpox vax was causing the death of 25,000 infants in 1880 at the height of comp vax, in 1921 it was 6,000 infants.

And if you investigated polio instead of spouting allopathic propaganda you would know polio vaccination was dangerous and ineffective.

"Provocation polio. That is the truth about those outbreaks of polio. And I offer a well considered personal opinion that polio is a man made disease."—Viera Scheibner, Ph.D.

DDT http://www.geocities.com/harpub/ and medical injections.


Oh, lemon juice.  Linus Pauling used vitamin C at about 40 grams a day. 

they also suppressed Vitamin E for the heart

If you prefer allopathic heart surgery then go ahead but not on my taxes, also cayenne pepper would work better but no money in that is there.  And you wont find any references for that just clinical practice by herbalists, but you can read Dick Quinn who saved himself with it after his bypass surgery failed to.

Surgery is hardly a therapy but is also their best one for cancer.

 

This doesn't sound the right approach to a proper...discussion.
We may be allopathic dudes, certainly not so much antipathetic. 

Then tell your friend Bored Chemist to be a bit more polite in future.  I may be trigger happy regarding pharma trolls, I have to say.

whale,
again you make bold statements, are you a doctor or researcher?

I wouldn't say so, more a truth investigator.  Started with spiritual, moved onto medicine 12 years ago.

Pardon? Last time I heard, small pox had been eliminated and therefore was no longer killing people. Are you saying that (1) small pox didn't kill people in the first place, (2) that it is still killing people or (3) that it was spontaneously wiped out by some simultaneous change conicident with the introduction of vaccination but unrelated?
Please explain, ideally citing your sources.

Are you saying that (1) small pox didn't kill people in the first place, (2) that it is still killing people or (3) that it was spontaneously wiped out by some simultaneous change conicident with the introduction of vaccination but unrelated? Please explain, ideally citing your sources.

Smallpox vax never saved a single life, huge epidemics followed compulsory vaccination which was why they repealed that law and probably why we don't have that here now.

So whatever got rid of smallpox it certainly wasn't vaccination--that just prolonged the agony.  Sanitation was the main factor, overcrowding, poor diet, poverty etc.

Alfred Wallace proved that with government statistics, also over 90% of smallpox victims had been vaccinated. His book is here: whale.to/vaccine/wallace/book1.html

"Whether we examine the long-continued records of London mortality, or those of modern registration for England, Scotland, and Ireland; whether we consider the "control experiment" or crucial test afforded by unvaccinated Leicester, or the still more rigid test in the other direction, of the absolutely revaccinated Army and Navy, the conclusion is in every case the same: that vaccination is a gigantic delusion; that it has never saved a single life; but that it has been the cause of so much disease, so many deaths, such a vast amount of utterly needless and altogether undeserved suffering, that it will be classed by the coming generation among the greatest errors of an ignorant and prejudiced age, and its penal enforcement the foulest blot on the generally beneficent course of legislation during our century."--Wallace

Secondly, Leicester proved by itself the fallacy of vaccination, over its 30 year experiment of not vaccinating--eg it lost 2,000 less infants under 5 in its non-vaccinating years.

"The town of Leicester rejected vaccination in favour of sanitation. Her experience during the past fifty years makes nonsense of the claims of the pro-vaccinists. When her population was thoroughly vaccinated she suffered severely from smallpox. As vaccination declined to one per cent of the infants born, smallpox disappeared altogether."---- Lilly Loat [Book 1951] The Truth About Vaccination and Immunization

It was all well documented by its Chief Sanitation officer, JT Biggs in his 1912 book, see quotes whale.to/a/biggsext.html

As for smallpox, it was considered a slight disease in 17 century under the care of Thomas Sydenham who only lost 2% of his cases.  Likewise a similar case mortality was found under naturopaths and homeopaths (0%), while under Allopathy it was 18%, rising to 26% when vaccination rates were highest.

In times when poverty was rife.

"Compare these well vaccinated countries with Australia, the least vaccinated country in the world. In 134 years, not one-fifth of the children born have been vaccinated. Yet only three Australian children under five have died of that disease. In the last 50 years, no child under five has died of smallpox, and in the whole of her history, less than one person per annum has died of it, although allowing five years protective period, only 2 per cent, of her population have ever been "protected." [1936 Pamphlet] The Case AGAINST Vaccination By M.  BEDDOW BAYLY M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P.



 

Skipping from vitamin C to dreadful vaccinations
in a few posts is not exactly fair...

Perhaps whale could start separate topics and keep the original one in tact!

One for vitamin C and one for vaccinations!

Perhaps he should look up some stuff about polio, for example- like many diseases- it is often "cured" by the body's immune system. I grant that a lack of vitamin C might hamper that system; so might a lack of salt or food.
As for "Oh, lemon juice.  Linus Pauling used vitamin C at about 40 grams a day."
So did his wife; she died; of cancer.

Perhaps he should look up some stuff about polio, for example- like many diseases- it is often "cured" by the body's immune system. I grant that a lack of vitamin C might hamper that system; so might a lack of salt or food.
As for "Oh, lemon juice.  Linus Pauling used vitamin C at about 40 grams a day." So did his wife; she died; of cancer.

He died at 92 which is a pretty good age isn't it.  I wouldn't take it like that myself, it probably did his kidneys in, think it was kidney cancer.  Natural is the way.

But prevention is not the real story, apart from preventing cot-death--that is curing infections, & reversing heart disease. 

This is the story that is criminal:

"74% of Americans are below daily RDA requirements for magnesium, 55% for iron, 68% calcium, 40% vitamin C, 33% B12, 80% B6, 33% B3, 35% B2, 45% B1, 50% vitamin A.
     From 25-50% of hospital patients suffer from protein calorie malnutrition. Pure malnutrition (cachexia) is responsible for at least 22% and up to 67% of all cancer deaths. Up to 80% of all cancer patients have reduced levels of serum albumin, which is a leading indicator of protein and calorie malnutrition. At least 20% of Americans are clinically malnourished, with 70% being sub-clinically malnourished, and the remaining "chosen few" 10% in good optimal health."—Patrick Quillin, Ph.D.

And what do they get in hospital?  Crap overcooked (ie no vitamins) food. Puddings, although it has to be said many are put out of reach. 

Whale, just to let you know I have not been following your thread just read it today, and have not formed opinions either way on either subject, but what I posted was a mere serious suggestion that you start a second topic if you would like. My comment has nothing to do with your information pro's con's or validity in subjects, just suggesting a separation of topics.. it is easier for search engines as far as topic titles go, and they should be in the form of a question!

You may get more responses and feedback that way....and Pertaining to the other Vaccinations as there will be pros and cons to both subjects and they are both different enough to separate the two.

Thanks Whale

“As for “Oh, lemon juice.  Linus Pauling used vitamin C at about 40 grams a day.” So did his wife; she died; of cancer.

He died at 92 which is a pretty good age isn’t it.”
She didn’t; which isn’t.

I believe that one of his long term co workers also died of cancer notwithstanding taking lots of vitamin C.

The idea that “vitamin C cures cancer” isn’t tennable because it has been shown to fail in these two cases.
It’s possible that it may help against some cancers (though I’d like to see good evidence or a plausible mechanism before I go along with this).
It’s well enough doccumented that a poor diet is associated with a raised risk of cancer. It’s fair to assume that many poor diets will be marginal, or defficient in terms of vitamon C. That means there will be a correlation between poor vitamin C levels and an increased risk of cancer. It doesn’t mean there’s any curative or preventatice effect.


Edit
By far the biggest problem with the idea that Vit C cures stuff is that, if it were true, only primates would get infected. Alsmost every other animal there is can make plenty of vit C.

She died at 78, which I think is fairly respectable. It's definitely above the average for the 1980's. Anyway, the point is the treatment of cancer with vitamin C. It has potentials - there are many papers out there that show vitamin C may have beneficial effects against cancer... but not all cancers and not all treatments with vitamin C. You can't just lump cancer together into one great disease - every cancer is different, and treated in different ways. Thus its logical to believe that vitamin C only works on certain types of cancer.

 
The idea that vitamin C doesn't cure cancer is too much of a blanket statement for 2 cases. If vitamin C did everything, then we would be set - all diseases would be cured and we would live forever. But it doesn't do everything... it only does some things, and without knowing what specific effects it has on the body, we'll never know its potential.

Right now it has the potential for killing certain types of cancer cells. If that works in the body is yet to be seen.

 
High-dose vitamin C IV delivered can cause an increase in hydrogen peroxide levels near the cancer cell. Strangely enough, this does not occur inside the blood stream, but in the sub-endothelial space -- the extracellular fluid between the blood vessel wall and the cell in question. Also, interestingly, this does not occur in normal tissues, or at least not to a degree that would cause you harm. In other words, it seems to be a local burst of oxidation near the cancer cell that eventually causes it to die. Why it happens is a question for future research, but the phenomenon has been recorded.

I could go into more detail, or you can just read about it here:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/102/38/13604

 
Certainly. But I think we are speaking of a therapy, not curing a deficiency.

 
I do not agree. 'Plenty' is dependent on your definition of the word.

Most animals synthesize vitamin C, but the vitamin C levels in synthesizing animals (when not provided vitamin C in the diet) is pretty low. They don't get scurvy... that's about all we can say. The amount of vitamin C they have is lower than the maximum their tissues can hold. So saying that 'animals make vitamin C, so vitamin C can't do anything because animals still get sick' is not logical. If you provide animals with vitamin C in the diet, they do better than those who don't get vitamin C.

This whole matter eventually comes down to doses of vitamin C. If you eat (or synthesize) enough vitamin C to just prevent scurvy, how healthy will you be? If you take more, to saturate your tissues, will that prevent some diseases? If you take even more than that, will other things start happening? We only have some of the answers to those questions.

Just as a side-note, other animals do not synthesize vitamin C besides primates. The only thing that unifies these animals is that they eat a lot of vitamin C in their diet normally.
 

Some vitamin C quotes.  It is telling that you only ever hear about its use for the cold which an elimination disease, so is never going to cure that, or as a failed cure for cancer.  If a cure was the only yardstick how come we use chemotherapy and radiation?

It is well known that cancer patients are malnourished yet they wont even give them nutrients to address that, purely because they don't want to use their lucrative market in pharma drugs that just very profitably palliate instead of cure.  As rath points out http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/PHARMACEUTICAL_BUSINESS/laws_of_the_pharmaceutical_industry.htm

Not forgetting at least 3.4 million children (27% of children in Britain, 41% of children in London) in the UK are blighted by destitution (in poverty), their parents too poor to feed, clothe or shelter them properly. You can imagine their nutritional status, and where do they get any vitamin C, aslo their parents?  You have to wonder.

"In one case where complete remission was achieved in myelogenous leukemia…the patient took 24-42 gms vitamin c per day…it is inconcievable that no-one appears to have followed this up….without the scurvy, leukemia may be a relatively benign, non fatal condition. I wrote a paper..in an attempt to have the therapy clinically tested..I sent it to 3 cancer journals and 3 blood journals..it was refused by all….Two without even reading it."---Irwin Stone, Ph.D.

"I became interested in vitamin C and cancer in 1971 and began working with Ewan Cameron, M.B., Ch.B., chief surgeon at Vale of Leven Hospital in Scotland. Cameron gave 10 grams of vitamin C a day to patients with untreatable, terminal cancer.   These patients were then compared by Cameron and me to patients with the same kind of cancer at the same terminal stage who were being treated in the same hospital but by other doctors--doctors who didn't give vitamin C, but instead just gave conventional treatments.   Cameron's terminal cancer patients lived far longer compared to the ones who didn't get 10 grams a day of vitamin C. The other patients lived an average of six months after they were pronounced terminal, while Cameron's patients lived an average of about six years. "--Linus Pauling Interview by Peter Chowka 1996

"Vitamin C extends the lives of cancer patients, confirmed by Drs Murata & Fukumi Morishige in 1981. In their study, patients who received 5-30 grams daily as their only therapy lived an average of 6.2 times as long as those on 4 gms or less. Those suffering from cancer of the uterus who took vitamin C lived an average of 15.4 times as long than those receiving little or no vitamin C supplementation."---Passwater.

"Two alleged trials took place under the direction of Dr. Charles Moertel at the Mayo Clinic. However as one might expect from a proven swindler operating at such a dishonoured location, these bore little resemblence to scientific methodology.    Moertel cooked the first trial…by packing the trial with patients whose immune systems had already been destroyed by toxic chemotherapy. He then rigged the second trial by treating the patients with ascorbate for only two and a half months and then continuing with the "trial" for another 2 years. He then issued a perjured press statement in which he announced that vitamin C therapy had been proven ineffective, carefully concealing the fact that he had almost certainly caused the death of several patients by reason of this iniquitous fraud. The resulting carefully devised publicity on the subject also caused the deaths of several other patients who had been happily surviving on ascorbate."---Dr Richards & Frank Hourigan.

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, November 9, 2007
Topical Vitamin C Stops Basal Cell Carcinoma
(OMNS Nov 9 2007) The most common form of skin cancer, basal cell carcinoma, often responds to a remarkably simple, safe, at-home treatment: vitamin C. Physicians and patients report that vitamin C, applied directly to basal cell skin cancers, causes them to scab over and drop off.  Successful use involves a highly-concentrated vitamin C solution, directly applied to the blemish two or three times a day. Vitamin C is selectively toxic to cancer cells, but does not harm healthy skin cells. This is also the basis for high-dose intravenous vitamin therapy for cancer.  Even higher concentrations of vitamin C can be obtained by direct application. The use of topical vitamin C to kill basal cell carcinoma has been known at least since 1971. Frederick R. Klenner, MD, wrote: "We have removed several small basal cell epithelioma with a 30 percent ointment" of vitamin C.  
One person, who reported that a 2mm diameter spot on the nose would not heal for months, had it disappear within a week with twice-daily concentrated vitamin C applications. Another patient reported that after dermatologist-diagnosed multiple spots of basal cell carcinoma were coated with vitamin C, the spots fell off within two weeks.  
Basal cell carcinomas are slow growing and it is rare for them to metastasize. This provides an opportunity for a therapeutic trial of vitamin C, provided one has proper medical diagnosis and follow-up.
Preparation of a water-saturated vitamin C solution is simple. Slowly add a small amount of water to about half a teaspoon of vitamin C powder or crystals. Use just enough water to dissolve the vitamin C. Using less water will make a paste. Either way, application with the fingertip or a cotton swab, several times daily, is easy. The water will evaporate in a few minutes and leave a plainly visible coat of vitamin C crystals on the skin.
Consult your doctor before employing this or any other self-care treatment. A physician’s diagnosis is especially important, since other forms of skin cancer, such as melanoma, are faster growing and more dangerous. If the vitamin C treated area is not improved after a few weeks, a doctor should be consulted once again.
References:
 William Wassell, MD: Skin cancer and vitamin C. Cancer Tutor, http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer02/VitaminC.html
 Riordan NH, Riordan HD, Meng X, Li Y, Jackson JA: Intravenous ascorbate as a tumor cytotoxic chemotherapeutic agent. Med Hypotheses 1995; 44: 207-2 13. http://www.brightspot.org/cresearch/intravenousc2.shtml and http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/riordan-nh-etal-med_hypotheses_1995-v44-p207.htm and also http://www.doctoryourself.com/riordan1.html
 Fredrick R. Klenner, MD: Observations on the dose and administration of ascorbic acid when employed beyond the range of a vitamin in human pathology. Journal of Applied Nutrition Vol. 23, Nos 3 & 4, Winter 1971. http://yost.com/health/klenner/klenner-1971.pdf and http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerpaper.html
 Age spots, basal cell carcinoma and solar keratosis. http://www.doctoryourself.com/news/v5n9.txt
 

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THANK YOU for understanding

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