Phillip Marshall

“100% certain”: 9/11 author was killed in black ops hit

Philip Marshall, Alex Marshall, and Macaila Marshall , RIP. We’ll do what we can to bust the scumbags who did this to you.

After a week-long on-site investigation, former National Security Agency officer Wayne Madsen is “100% certain” that 9/11 investigator and author Philip Marshall and his two children were killed in a black ops hit. Madsen’s conclusion is that the cover story – an alleged murder-suicide – is transparently absurd.

Madsen stated his conclusions on yesterday’s Kevin Barrett show. Among the evidence cited by Madsen:

*Neighbors’ houses are “practically on top of” Marshall’s house, so dozens of neighbors would have heard any gunshots that weren’t muffled by a silencer…and Marshall’s “patsy gun” did not have a silencer.

*The crime scene was illegally and surreptitiously cleaned up by professionals, including “a SUV, license undetermined, with an array of communication antennas bristling from the roof.”

*Philip Marshall, who had expressed his fear of being harassed or silenced for his 9/11 revelations, never kept his doors open – but when the bodies were found, a side door Marshall never used was wide open.

According to Madsen, all of Marshall’s neighbors believe it was a professional murder, not the murder-suicide claimed by corrupt local police, who have presumably been told what to do and say by higher authorities working on behalf of “national security.”

Marshall, Madsen points out, was not just any 9/11 conspiracy author. A former airline pilot, Marshall was a close associate of notorious CIA drug smuggler Barry Seal, and a peripheral player in the New Orleans CIA/crime nexus that killed JFK, Martin Luther King, and many others. Madsen suggests that Marshall, a long-time participant in covert operations, developed a penchant for truth during the last years of his life.

According to Madsen, Marshall had stated that he was holding explosive information that would be revealed in his next book. The repeated professional-clean-ups of Marshall’s house after the murder suggest that the killers, and the agency or agencies employing them, were looking for a specific piece of evidence or information. (Marshall’s computer mysteriously disappeared after the killings, and its whereabouts remain unknown.)

Below is a transcript of my interview with Wayne Madsen. A big thank-you to whoever took the time to transcribe it!


The Kevin Barrett Show
February 19, 2013.


BARRETT: Welcome to the Kevin Barrett Show. I’m Kevin Barrett, back from a long vacation. I just spent two weeks in Iran over at the film festival, The Hollywoodism Conference, as part of the as part of the Fajr Film Festival in Tehran. And wow, that was pretty exciting, and one of the pieces of news that arrived from the US of A while I was in Tehran was the killing of Phillip Marshall and his two children in California. Phillip Marshall is a retired United Airlines pilot, he’s written a couple of books about 9/11, most recently “The Big Bamboozle”, he was a former associate of the CIA/DEA informant Barry Seal, the notorious CIA cocaine smuggler, and if you think Phillip Marshall killed himself and his two children as the police are trying to claim; well, I don’t know…you need to go back to school.

Today I’m going to be talking about this tragic case of an apparent 9/11 whistleblower being silenced with one of my favorite sources of leaks from inside the US Intel community, the thinking man’s Seymour Hersh, and that is Wayne Madsen. Wayne Madsen is formerly with the National Security Agency, he has since become an independent patriot journalist doing consistently excellent work, and well, It’s an honor to welcome Wayne Madsen back to the show. How are you Wayne?

MADSEN: Fine, good to be with you.

BARRETT: Yeah, well I do follow your work, and you’ve made a number of very interesting breakthroughs, and your piece on Phillip Marshall is very important. I mean, those of us in the 9/11 Truth community should not just take it lying down when somebody is murdered along with their children to keep this covered up. I think that’s more or less what happened to Paul Wellstone as well. These people have no shame; I mean killing the children all with their targets, it’s absolutely disgusting. Why don’t you give the listeners sort of a rundown on Phillip Marshall?

MADSEN: Well Phillip Marshall, I have to admit I wasn’t all that familiar with his work, but when I read his biography along with the…some really scurrilous news reports that, ‘yknow, he was this, ‘yknow, this repressed killer who snapped, and put a gun on the head of his 17 year old son and his 14 year old daughter, and his little pet shih tzu, Suki, y’know, you start to wonder what in the world is going on here. Now, of course, being an independent journalist, I’m not the New York Times, or the Washington Post, or even the San Francisco Chronicle, where I can, y’know, dispatch people to investigate all these mysterious murders, so I have to pick and choose the ones which I can look in, but this one was so far up on the radar screen, I flew out to California. Phil Marshall lived in a very small, gated sub-development outside of the town of Murphys, which is in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada Mountain range and he lived in a sub-division called Forest Meadows — mostly retirees from San Francisco Bay Area, Los Angeles. Phillip Marshall himself moved there about 10 years ago from Santa Barbara. As you mentioned he’s a retired United Airlines pilot. He moved up to Murphys to have more seclusion because he planned on writing some books. Now his first book was a novel, but based on real life occurences, called Lake Front. Lake Front being the New Orleans Downtown Airport which saw a lot of traffic in the early to mid 80s associated with…later with the Iran-Contra scandal, but a lot of CIA activity involved involved with the Drug Enforcement Administration with one Barry Seal…

BARRETT: Wayne I’m sorry to interrupt you but you’re starting to break up a little bit, are you on a cell phone?

MADSEN: Oh, yes, can you hear me now?

BARRETT: Hello, Wayne?

MADSEN: Yes, hello?

BARRETT. Hmm. That’s very odd.

MADSEN: Hello?

BARRETT: We seem to have got some interference pushing Wayne Madsen offline…

MADSEN: Hello? Hello?

BARRETT: … and hopefully we will get him back on the air in short order. That’s pretty interesting, two shows in a row where I’ve had this kind of mysterious interference. Hmmm.

MADSEN: Hello?

BARRETT: At least I must be doing something right. Are you there Wayne?

MADSEN: Yes, hello. Can you hear me?

BARRETT: Yeah, yeah, something…we just had your…yeah…your voice started breaking up.

MADSEN: Well, listen…yeah…this is something that actually plagued me when I was in California looking into the Phil Marshall case. I’m not sure how much you heard, but so Marshall’s first… He moved to Calaveras County from Santa Barbara about ten years ago for more seclusion because he planned on writing books, and the first book was called Lake Front, about Lake Front Airport in downtown New Orleans, where he and Barry Seal worked together in the early 80s. I would point out there’s also a photograph that has shown up showing Phil Marshall in 1984 at the Mena airfield in Arkansas. Now this is the famous, or infamous, airport that was the scene of a lot of cocaine smuggling from Latin America in return for US weapons being shipped to the Contras in Nicaragua and the various drug cartels. And I spoke to one of Phil Marshall’s long time friends who said that Phil Marshall went to work for Eastern Airlines first after he was a DEA and CIA pilot, ferrying among others Barry Seal around through New Orleans and Mena airfield. But Phil Marshall went to work for Eastern Airlines, but later he was looking at the television in, I guess, 1986, when a big story broke and we saw a uniformed Marine Corp. Lt. Colonel take an oath before a Joint Sub-Committee of the Senate and House, and he pointed the guy out and said “Hey, I met him down at Lake Front Airport.” And that was, of course, Lt. Colonel Oliver North who turned out to be, y’know, one of the key players in the Iran-Contra scandal.

Marshall had some interesting connections early on, and it looks like towards the end he was becoming someone more interested in telling the truth than having anything to do with his former acquaintances and associates, which makes the Sheriff…the Calveras County Sheriff’s contention that he shot his two children, his dog and then himself even that much more unbelievable.

BARRETT: Right, and he was obviously mixed up with some pretty high level organized criminals in his days as an associate of Barry Seal.  Maybe the listeners may not remember that Barry Seal was gunned down in, I think it was Baton Rouge, or New Orleans, one of the two…

MADSEN: Baton Rogue, 19…February 19th in 1986.

BARRETT: Right. And Barry Seal had been a CIA drug pilot. This was part of the Cocaine-for-the-Contras thing that Olly North and probably George H.W. Bush, was smuggling cocaine with the CIA to support the Contra insurgency in Nicaragua. And then Barry Seal got gunned down in Baton Rogue after he had turned just state’s evidence against, guess who, his own lawyer, Richard Ben-Veniste, who later served on the 9/11 Commission. Very interesting tie-ins here.

MADSEN: Yeah, and the interesting thing is too is that Barry Seal was a CIA/DEA informant turned whistleblower. He was gunned down in Baton Rogue. The federal judge, Polozola, who was actually a crony of the Bush family, sort of put him in a limbo category. Seal was offered Witness Protection Program but that would have meant he would have had very little contact with his family, he wanted something different. The federal judge who was linked to the Mafia, and the Marcello crime family in New Orleans, and we know about that link to previous incidents in New Orleans involving…

BARRETT: Wasn’t the Marcello crime family, weren’t they actually tied into the Martin Luther King assassination, as I recall….

MADSEN: Also John F. Kennedy.


MADSEN: Also that of John F. Kennedy.

BARRETT: So they’ve worked with the CIA and other government bad guys in these kinds of assassinations.

MADSEN: That’s right. So we have a have a dirty judge who basically left Seal out to dry. He was gunned down, I think, he was shot multiple times in his car in the parking lot of a Salvation Army in Baton Rogue. They looked in the trunk in his car, they found the private phone number of George H.W. Bush, in addition to Seal’s Honduran passport, which was issued, of course, in another name. Seal was very connected to these operations. Marshall knew him well enough because Marshall basically flew Seal around in a CIA Lear jet after, of course, Seal had his license revoked, his pilot license revoked after his arrest. Seal himself had been a former pilot for TWA, and I believe he was the youngest pilot in the airline’s history. Marshall himself was a pretty young pilot for Eastern, but when Frank Lorenzo took over Eastern and went after the pilot’s union and the other unions Marshall said “I’m not going to be a scab, I’m not crossing pickets lines”, so he left Eastern because of the anti-union…the union busting policies of Lorenzo and went to work for United.

BARRETT: Hmm. Wow. What an interesting history.So somebody who’s been this involved with, well, CIA, DEA, the drug smuggling, the dark side or overworld of the government, maybe is not supposed to be doing 9/11 truth books. Is that the message that was sent by this killing?

MADSEN: Well, I’m not certain. I’ve spoke to many of Marshall’s neighbors, friends and none of them, of course, believe the official story that he did this. The person they described to me was a very mellow guy, with a sense of humor, who cared all the world about his kids, who participated in his son’s little league games and with the football, and took the daughter on outings with her high school friends, very involved with the community, very involved with her school, so of course when this tragedy occured there’s a memorial at the high school in San Andreas, California, but none of Marshall’s family who flew out there were allowed to attend. They came in from Georgia, and from North Carolina, and from his native Louisiana, and because basically the Sheriff put the word out that he did it; y’know, a conclusive report, even though, y’know, the crime scene had not been thoroughly investigated. And I also discovered that the Calaveras County Sheriff, who I might add I understand is sort of in line with the Tea Party Republicans, sent in professional cleaners to clean the crime scene before the investigation was actually complete. On two occassions…


MADSEN. …On two occasions that the cleaners were there, there were SUVs spotted in the driveway, people combing the house inside and outside. One night was with five or six guys with flashlights looking around the grounds behind the house, they were in the house. One vehicle with State of California tags, even though the Sheriff said it was a county matter and it had no state involvement in the investigation. And there was another SUV, license undetermined, with an array of communication antennas bristling from the roof of the vehicle, so there was a lot of attention after the yellow tape was removed and it was no declared as no longer as a crime scene. There was also an attempted break-in. I was there on the 13th of February, and looked around the house, spoke to a bunch of the people who lived in the neighborhood, and that evening the home was broken in to, somebody got through a sliding door in the back of the house and was after something. Also members of his estranged family showed up the next day and rifled through various drawers and boxes in the garage looking for something. It seems like Phillip Marshall had something somebody wanted, and something that somebody was willing to kill for, and he told a friend of his, after his last book he wrote that came out, I believe in November, and he was actually on a interview on AM Coast-to-Coast with Susan Lindauer, who many people may be familiar with also…

BARRETT: Yeah, she’s been on my show many times.

MADSEN: Yeah, so he was on Coast-to-Coast with Susan Lindauer, and y’know, his book The Big Bamboozle, about how, y’know, the Bush family, Cheney, the Saudi Government, they were all complicit in 9/11; he also added the Neo-Cons in that.

BARRETT: Let’s not forget the Neo-Cons…

MADSEN: Yeah, right. And more importantly, he told a friend of his that he was working on a fourth book, and he said “you’re really going to be shocked to see what I have in this fourth book.” Now what that book was nobody seems to know what the subject was, nobody seems to know, but… Being a New Orleans native, and I have to add too that he was such a fan of the New Orleans Saints that when the team suspended the coach for some, I guess, rule infractions with the NFL, he actually paid for planes with banners to fly over the stadiums, arenas…stadiums where the Saints were playing saying, y’know, “Free the Coach.” The fact is, this murder took place, these shootings took place two days before the Super-Bowl was going to be at the Super-Dome in New Orleans, and Phil Marshall told all his friends that he was anxiously awaiting the Super Bowl, even though the Saints weren’t in it, it was in the Saint’s, ‘yknow, home stadium, and certainly they, ‘yknow, they said that…not only did he never show any signs of that depression, but they said he certainly wouldn’t have done anything like that two days before the Super Bowl was going to be held in New Orleans.

BARRETT: Wow. So in terms of speculation about what information he might have had that would be worth killing him for, do you have information on that?

MADSEN: Well, looking at the people he knew early on; Barry Seal, now Barry Seal was a member of the Group of 40, a shadowy CIA group that included people like Ted Shackley, Porter Goss, Felix Rodriguez – as a matter of fact there was a photograph of many of these individuals taken in February 1963 in Mexico City. Several months later, of course, Lee Harvey Oswald shows up in Mexico City, not as I feel, or many other people feel, was to make contact with the Cubans and Soviets to kill President Kennedy, but to find out what the Group of 40 was doing, because as we later found Lee Harvey Oswald was an informant for both the Central Intelligence Agency and the FBI.

BARRETT: That’s right. I had Judith Baker on the show in November. Judith Baker was Lee Harvey Oswald’s girlfriend, and she said that Oswald, like her, was working for US intelligence, he was informing for the FBI, and he was actually spying on the people that were hatching the plot against JFK.

MADSEN: Right. So considering that New Orleans was so key in the Kennedy assassination, and y’know, we know that Jim Garrison was on the right track and he was derailed, both from without and from within his own group, and the Marcello connection, and the Guy Bannister connection, all the other connections; Fair Play for Cuba, the front group that Oswald associated himself with. All headquartered in New Orleans. Clay Shaw, one of the unindicted, y’know, Garrison went after him but he got off that. All centered in New Orleans, knowing that later, of course, Barry Seal, who was a member of that Group of 40 as an associate of Marshall, Marshall’s flying him around. My gut feeling, and I have no way to know this for certain; this is 2013, this is the 50th anniversary of the killing of President Kennedy. If I were a veracious researcher as Marshall was, and he moved up to this area to, y’know, for more seclusion, so he would have time to write books…I mean, when you look out his back window you see, y’know, the Sierra Nevada range, and, y’know, it’s quite idyllic for an author, I, y’know, got really jealous of the people who lived up there, because, y’know, there’s a couple of other authors that live in the neighborhood, but y’know, I just wonder if somebody handed him something – Somebody he met in the past who showed up and said, “hey, you’re an author, how about this information?”, and maybe he was working on something either directly related to the JFK assassination, or peripherally involved, something, maybe another take on Iran-Contra, because some of the same players were involved in that; notably George H.W. Bush. So, it’s hard to say, but it had to be something so important that they were willing to kill Marshall and his two children and the dog for. The dog, of course, I believe, was shot because it was a shih tzu, and they’re known for being very yappy when somebody who they don’t know comes onto the premises, but I believe the murder of Marshall and his family had something to do with his next book.

BARRETT: Wow, yeah, I would think so too, although the Kennedy assassination did happen fifty years ago, and Iran-Contra was, what, thirty some years or so ago, and 9/11 was just a little over a decade ago, and since he’s worked on that issue, and it’s, y’know, the people who did 9/11 are all still in power. I think are lot of the JFK criminals have probably retired, or passed to their eternal punishment, but…so I wouldn’t wonder if it wasn’t something 9/11 related.

MADSEN: Possibly, or he was actually interlinking all three events from 1963, through the 80s and Iran-Contra to the 9/11 attacks, because we see some of the same players, of course, same agencies involved, but that’s just a guess on my part. Or he was working on something totally unrelated that, again, was maybe something to do with the Columbian drug cartels, and his time with DEA. Maybe he was looking into that. Certainly there would have been a reason for professional assassins to hit him and his family if that’s the angle he was pursuing. But without…the interesting thing is nobody’s sure what happened to his computer; it’s no longer in his home, it was ripped from the wall. It may be in the hands of the Calaveras County Sheriff’s department, or maybe in the hands of his estranged wife’s family, but nobody’s really certain what happened to the computer and his files, and it’s one of the leads I’m still trying to pursue, to see if he gave information, or handed information to anyone for safe-keeping.

BARRETT: Well I would sure hope he would have. I mean, if you’re working on something really hot as he said he was. I mean, you Wayne, in the business that you’re in, you know that if you’re in that situation you’re in, you’re going to make sure that information is spread into at least a few areas where, if something happens to you, it’s going to be available.

MADSEN: Absolutely, and as I say, the house has been gone through several times by professional cleaners, and ‘unauthorized cleaners’, quote unquote, but y’know, of course the Calvera County’s Sheriff… I was told by people in County government, that they’re really the mountain version of the Keystone Kops, that not only I mentioned the politics, even though the Sheriff is a non-partisan position, but they’re really rather incompetent up there. They’ve been trying to hire fifteen new sheriffs, and, y’know, in a budget-strapped county, they say “you’re not doing a heck of a lot with the sheriffs you’ve got” and, y’know, the answer has been “no”, because they’ve just not able to handle these kinds of investigations. And also, they would be also prone to any federal agency coming to them with, y’know, a preordained reason for these deaths, telling them “this is the story you’re going to put out” and then, y’know,     agreeing to that, certainly.

BARRETT: Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Wasn’t, wasn’t Calaveras County…wasn’t that where Mark Twain had his celebrated jumping frog?

MADSEN: Yes, that’s in Angel’s Camp. That’s in Angel’s Camp, and that’s just down the highway 4 from Murphys, where Marshall lived, so you take the mountain road down to Angel’s Camp and you find where Mark Twain wrote about the jumping frog contest. And Twain lived in that area, and he did a lot of writing actually there, and he worked for, he actually worked for some newspapers up there. It’s just a shame that…Y’know I spoke to some journalists up there, that papers do as best as they can with limited resources; the Calaveras Enterprise, which is San Andreas…  they, y’know, try to investigate these matters, but they’re really reliant on the Sheriff’s department for most of their information, because they just don’t have the resources, and you’ve only got, maybe, two or three full time reporters trying to cover everything from, y’know, high school football games to murder, to, y’know, police busting the very many meth labs that exist in the area.

BARRETT: Hmm. Wow. Sounds like the true setting for a contemporary murder mystery, which is pretty much what we’ve got here with the killing of Phillip Marshall, the author of The Big Bamboozle, among other books, sitting on some very hot information he was going to reveal, and now, who knows where that all is? Well, we’re going to take a midpoint break here, and be back in five minutes. I’m Kevin Barrett, this is the Kevin Barrett Show on “No Lies Radio”, talking with Wayne Madsen, the celebrated independent journalist who actually flew out and investigated the apparent murder of whistle-blower Phillip Marshall. We’ll be right back.


BARRETT: Welcome back.This is The Kevin Barrett Show on The website for the show’s And today I’m talking with Wayne Madsen, he’s a former National Security Agency officer turned whistleblowing journalist. In fact he’s a conduit for whistle blowers, and a real journalist, which is why you really should go to his website, and sign-up, pay him a pittance for his trouble, because Wayne actually does things like fly out to California to investigate the apparent murder of 9/11 whistleblower Phillip Marshall. He doesn’t have the resources of the Sacramento Bee, or the San Francisco Chronicle, but he does have that dedication to truth, and we need some, y’know, real journalism to be happening the way things are going these days.

Well, Wayne, we’re talking about this Phillip Marshall incident, where he and his two children were killed, in what seems a fairly obvious assassination. The, well, let’s call them, the less-than-thoroughly trustworthy
local sheriff’s department, is trying to call it a murder-suicide, but there’s all sorts of evidence that’s it not, and in one of your earlier reports, you mentioned that the sheriff says that the houses are so far apart that nobody would be able to hear gunshots, and when you went out there you found out that wasn’t exactly the case.

MADSEN: No, as a matter of fact, the houses are very close together, but horizontally and vertically, because basically, this sub-division, Forest Meadows, is built on a mountainside, and so you’ve not only got homes close to one another next door, but also almost on top of one another. You could be looking down on a neighbor’s home just as easily as looking across at it. I understand that, y’know, one neighbor told me that ….y’know, look, the homes are so close together, that one neighbor could hear Phil Marshall whistling inside his house…


MADSEN: So, that’s not what…that’s not what the Sheriff said. Obviously a silencer must have been used. Many neighbors thought that was the case. They believed the Sheriff said “no, there’s no indication of a silenced….” Marshall had a 9mm Glock. He was found lying on his back, shot in the left side of his head. One of the things I’m trying to find out is if he was right handed or left handed,  I’m still trying to get that. But he was shot in the left side of his head, once, he was lying on his back with the gun underneath. Now, people react differently to gunshots, that could have been the case, y’know, if we consider it was a suicide, but the odd thing is is that he joked to his neighbors that even though he had this registered 9mm Glock he never had…he said “a lot of good it’ll do me, because I don’t have any ammo for it.” Now one of the things the Sheriff said he found was a box of 9mm ammunition with Marshall’s wedding ring on top of it. Friends and neighbors told me that after his separation from his wife, Marshall never wore his wedding ring, and so, why did the Sheriff leak this? The Sheriff leaked this to a family member, and of course it was picked up by the media, so it looked like there was some sort of attempt by the Sheriff to steer the media in a certain direction, even though, one, neighbors said that, y’know, he had no ammunition for this gun, but if it’s registered obviously there’s a record that Marshall owned a 9mm Glock, so if somebody had a similar weapon they could have shot him with that, made it look…y’know, used his weapon, put it underneath, make it look like he did it. Interestingly enough, two reports the Sheriff has not released yet: the toxicology tests to make sure that Marshall and his kids, and even the dog had not been, y’know, put under by some sort of, y’know, drug, and also the GSR, the Gunshot Residue Report, and that would be very critical to determining whether he shot himself, y’know, they do the paraffin tests and all that; whether he did it or it was, y’know, another assailant. So two critical reports. And even the local papers’ having trouble getting that GSR report. The toxicology, the claim is, it’s being handled by the chemist, y’know, the people who do that in Sacramento, so that’s delayed because of their backlogs. So two critical reports are out and the Sheriff still, with that in mind, has said conclusively that Marshall shot his kids, his dog and then himself.

BARRETT: Conclusively.You wonder how far they can go in falsifying these reports about crime scenes, y’know, there are at least celebrated cases where Gary Webb is shot twice in the head and it’s called suicide, or Paul Wellstone’s plane goes down a week after he gets a threat from Cheney, and obviously dubious circumstances right before Wellstone is going to sweep into victory and stop the Iraq war and investigate 9/11, boom, his plane goes down, and they tell us there was bad weather, and there wasn’t, the weather was perfectly good, yet the whole news media tells us there was bad weather. How far can they go in making up these ridiculous stories, that the houses were so far apart that nobody could hear any gunshots when the houses were right on top of one another? I mean, obviously shot with a silencer. I mean, aren’t these people going to get caught?

MADSEN: Yeah, and we should remember that Hunter S. Thompson was supposedly working a major article on 9/11. He supposedly shot himself too, and there were reports of maybe more than one type of gunshot there, so yeah, it happens, but as long as we have an FBI that’s complicit in these crimes, either through commission or omission, and a runaway Central Intelligence Agency, which if Obama gets his way, we’re going to get a pathological, remote control murderer in charge of that place, John Brennan. As long as this continues and we’re going have a weak Congress, which does not exercise even the, I would say, even the weak sort of control and oversight exhibited by Congress in the 70s by, y’know, I mean, give them credit, Frank Church and Otis Pike in the House, and Bella Abzug in the House, and they did what they could, but under tremendous counter-pressure, but we don’t even have anything like that these days to restrain these agencies, so, y’know, when people say “the CIA may have done it”, or some other black ops group in the US government, y’know, people say “oh, that’s conspiracy theory” – we’ve had the Senate already go on record, and the House, in the 1970s talking about these quote-unquote ‘conspiracy theories’ and documenting them in official House and Senate reports. So, I mean, this pejorative term that thrown around by the Neo-Cons… they think that they’re so invulnerable that you can’t charge them with anything like them being like cult Kabbalists. Even Wolfowitz jokingly referred to himself and his cronies as “Kabbalists”, but if you say that you’re being anti-Semitic. So they can use all the pejorative terms in the world, but, y’know, we’re not allowed to retaliate or respond to them. It’s a great deal for them.

BARRETT: Yeah, there seems to be a lot of energy put into shaping the discourse, and y’know, developing these words that can be used to stop people from thinking like the word “conspiracy theorist”, and that term was apparently…we’ve traced it to a CIA memo, that was put out to their journalists assets. Of course, Operation: Mockingbird was the the CIA program that developed all of these journalist assets, and as I recall Cord Meyer was the head of that program, and he was named along with LBJ as one of the two top guys in the JFK assassination by Howard Hunt in his deathbed confession. So, right, anyway, this CIA memo said that all the CIA assets in journalism should start using the term “conspiracy theorist” to bash anybody asking questions about the JFK assassination. At that time, of course, we were told Oswald was the lone assassin, so anybody who said there was another shooter was a conspiracy theorist because there must be a conspiracy…but now they’ve got that term out there to attack anyone who questions authority with. They use it in even absurd cases like 9/11, which of course is a conspiracy, there is obviously more than one person involved, and yet they throw this completely meaningless insult at people to try and shut them up, and it seems to work; a fair number of otherwise intelligent people…

MADSEN:  Yeah, and they did that of course, the press; one of the local papers out there, the one in Sonora, the Union Democrat, was really vicious against Marshall. Not only did they call him, y’know, a cold blooded killer who snapped, just in a headline, y’know, that he was a 9/11 conspiracy theorist…This was all in their report. They weren’t the only paper, they were the worst, and why I say they were the worst was Phil Marshall’s first wife, who lives in New Orleans now, contacted that paper with a screed against her husband. She hasn’t seen him since 1998, since they were divorced. She lives in New Orleans, he moved to the West Coast, but they said “well, she said things like she was abusive, he was violent, he used foul language, he had two kids by his second wife, but he wouldn’t have any kids with me.” As if that’s relevant to anything…

BARRETT: Right…that explains where she’s coming from.

MADSEN: Right, and I checked this person, and y’know, it’s interesting, she’s been in and out of court and, y’know, her husband…litigation, suing contractors…and the husband, interestingly enough, sued his employer, which it turned out to be the Department of Energy, and this individual who the first wife’s married too is the…is an auditor for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, down in Louisiana, that’s run by the Energy Department, but that we know that reserve is tied in directly to the oil industry, and y’know, when we talk oil, we’re talking Cheney, we’re talking Bush.

BARRETT: Wow. That’s very interesting. So not only might this person have had a grudge against her former husband, but she might have reason to be willing to go along with suggestions that she slam him in the media.

MADSEN: Exactly. Exactly.

BARRETT: Yeah, wow…It’s kind of sad how little integrity there is in some of these places.

MADSEN: Yeah, yeah. Y’know, again, when it points all back to New Orleans…it’s very interesting. One of things I wanted to mention about Barry Seal; Barry Seal’s case was handled by this Bush crony, but y’know, he had 1.2 million dollars in assets that there was a big battle over. Y’know, the IRS want it, because they’ve got this law where if you make your money because of drug smuggling they can, y’know, they can take it. They can tax it first of all, then they can seize it. So the judge in that case was a guy named Martin Feldman, he’s actually still on the federal bench, and not only is he on the federal bench, he’s a member of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, that top secret court that authorizes, y’know, these NSA/FBI wiretaps and whatnot, for national security counter terrorism purposes. But Feldman was also a key judge in the litigation over BP in the Deep Water Horizon disaster, and it was later found out that he did not recuse himself from these cases even though he was a stockholder in Transocean, the company that owned the platform the Deep Water Horizon, and also he’s a stockholder in BP itself. So we’ve got this dirty judge involved with the post-mortem of Barry Seal’s matters, and the other Bush crony involved with putting Barry Seal in jeopardy because he was such a threat to Vice President Bush.

BARRETT: Wow. These mobbed up judges are amazing, aren’t they? Y’know, the whole giving Larry Silverstein double indemnity on his World Trade Center losses, even though he confessed to demolishing Building 7. We’ve got Bush’s cousin, Judge Walker, refusing to recuse himself from a case, the April Gallops case, charging Bush with the greatest crime of the century.

MADSEN: Right. Right. And of course, Karl Rove’s own buddy, Mark Fuller, Little District of Alabama judge who put Karl Rove’s number one political enemy Don Siegelman in prison, so, yeah, it goes on and on, these judges are fiends. And y’know, lifetime appointments…we really need to revisit that. The only thing I’m in favor of giving a judge anything a lifetime is a prison sentence.

BARRET: Well, some of them obviously deserve it.

MADSEN: Absolutely.

BARRET: Yeah…so, how long were you out there in California, looking into the Phillip Marshall case?

MADSEN: I was out there…I was out there for little over a week. 8 days. And yeah, the environment is…I have to…y’know, listeners put them in the frame of mind; you’ve got a tragedy in a small town, of course; y’know, everybody talks in a small town. Most information goes by the rumour net. So when you go in there, you’ve really got to let people know that you’re not…that you’re trustworthy, because they’ve got the local media that for one reason or another can’t…y’know, that can’t extensively look into these things. You’ve got a sheriff’s department who came up with this quick conclusion, and you’ve got friends of Phil Marshall who don’t believe it, so… With friends and neighbors and whatnot I had to really, ‘yknow, convince them that I was really, y’know, out to find the truth, and I wasn’t out to disparage Marshall or the family, or have some other agenda, so that takes a little bit of time to do that, but I feel that after a few days out there people started to open up more and tell me some personal dealings that they had with Marshall which, y’know, I passed on in the articles I talked about already, so I came away… I went there skeptical about the official story, I came away believing absolutely 100% that he did not do this.

BARRET: And that’s what all the neighbors you talked to said, right, I mean, it was basically 100% of them didn’t believe the official story?

MADSEN: That’s correct. Now the problem is with some of the friends of the Marshall children, from high school, y’know, the families, they knew ‘em through the kids, and the word went out to the kids that this is a perfect example why somebody who’s diagnosed as mentally ill should not have access to a gun, so, I…with some of the things I saw out there, I saw some sort of an attempt to turn this into mini-Newtown, Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting scenario – it was quite different than that. But, y’know, there was an attempt to make Marshall, unfortunately, look like this guy Adam Lanza, and I think that just some people with an agenda pushed that agenda out there.

BARRET: Right, and what was the Sheriff’s evidence, when the Sheriff immediately said “it’s a slam-dunk case, this is a murder-suicide”, I mean, after everything you’ve said it sounds like there’s no evidence whatsoever to support that?


BARRETT: What’s he pointing at?

MADSEN: Well, the position of the body for one thing. Y’know, the children were found on a sectional couch, but on different sections of the couch, and the issue came up is “if he shot one of the kids, y’know, and the other kid was on the other couch, there would have been some time maybe to respond to it, to escape or do something.” Well, that certainly wasn’t the case. His front door was open, so when a neighbor went over…some kids showed up on Saturday, because, y’know… the two kids, Alex, 17 and Macaila, 14, were in constant Twitter, Facebook and all this stuff that kids do these days with their iPhones and whatnot…they were in constant communications. So when they didn’t show up for high school on Friday, and they didn’t hear anything, they showed up at the house, four of them showed up to the house on Saturday. They saw through the window at the front door that there was somebody laying there, and the neighbor came over and found that the door was open, went in, and found Phillip Marshall at the end of this long corridor, clearly shot, and clearly dead. When the Sheriff came, of course, all those people were shooed off, and the yellow tape went up, and this was Saturday. But interestingly enough, the coroner out there is saying that the time of death of these individuals was the time that the bodies were discovered, even though there is evidence they were shot Thursday the night of January 31st and Friday morning, which was February 1st. The coroner said time of death was when they were discovered Satuday, late, I think, late Saturday morning. So we have a huge discrepancy there as well. Phil Marshall, I’m told, never kept his door open, even though many people do that, he had reason not to, but the neighbor walked right through; the door was open. There was a side door that was never used, neighbors told me, never used, always closed; it was also found ajar when the bodies were discovered. So the yellow tape goes up Saturday morning, by the next day, Sunday, the yellow tape goes down. The sheriff completed the investigation, ruled it a double homicide and suicide.

BARRETT: Well…that’s amazing, that they can…

MADSEN: Yeah…and some of the neighbors, of course, who are retired have relatives in law enforcement, and one told me that one…that a relative heads up the homicide department of a medium-sized California city and said “absolutely that did not happen that way”, and said that in his particular jurisdiction, they have a lot of cases where murders are made to look like suicides. So that came from somebody who heads up a homicide division in a fairly medium, y’know, medium to large size city in the San Francisco Bay Area.

BARRETT: Yeah, these alleged suicides are so convenient because that means you never have to put the guy on trial; y’know, if they have Oswald as the patsy in the JFK killing, then he’s still alive, that’s a problem, so of course he has to be silence, then Jack Ruby has to be given cancer while he’s in jail, but it’s so much more convenient if your 19 alleged 9/11 perps are all supposedly dead in the plane crashes, even though 10 of them show up alive afterwards, well, we can just ignore that, and likewise, here, it’s a lot easier for them to cover these things up if they have a dead patsy, who can’t fight back, can’t hire a lawyer, y’know, they don’t have to prove anything in court….y’know, it sounds like not one shred of evidence has been produced indicating this is what they say it is, but it doesn’t matter, because there’s nobody there to fight it.

MADSEN: That’s right, and some of Phil Marshall’s friends and neighbors told me that, y’know, although Phil wasn’t paranoid by any stretch, on occasion he did express some fear for his personal safety, but he didn’t dwell on it, he didn’t live like he was paranoid, but certainly on more than one occasion had made that statement to a couple of people, not in a…y’know…sort of like a passing, not even a serious thing, “oh yeah, y’know, I have to watch my back”, y’know, statements like that.

BARRETT: I can understand why he would say that. Now I wonder if, at some point, there shouldn’t be a reform in the justice system when a dead person is blamed for a crime, they…a good lawyer should defend that person, and they should have to convict him in court. That would make it a lot harder for these organized crime elements to stage these murder-suicides.

MADSEN: Absolutely. Absolutely. And most people I spoke to felt that whoever did this…y’know, as I mentioned, there’s meth labs in the area, so there’s a criminal element in the county, but these are not professionals by any stretch. These are sort of like moonshiners during prohibition. These aren’t the smartest people around, so whoever carried this out, this was a big-time professional hit. So even if somebody had hired locals to carry this out, it would have been much sloppier than the way it was carried out. This was, y’know, a very quick-entry, one gun-shot each to the three people and the dog, and out they went.

BARRETT: Well you have a lot of contacts inside the intelligence community, having been a former National Security Agency officer yourself…and you’re maybe the top forum for leaks, right alongside VeteransToday which is a whole lot of people, and you’re just one guy, and apparently have a lot of good sources. Do you think there’s any chance you’re going to find inside information about this?

MADSEN: I wish that were the case, but unfortunately what has happened to the whistleblowers in the government over the last, I’d say, two years with unprecedented use of the Espionage Act to put whistleblowers in prison, the last being John Kiriakou, formerly of the CIA. I and and others, and I’ve talked with national security reporters from major, major newspapers, and, y’know, everybody’s saying the same thing; that the sources are drying up, the whistleblowers feel like they can’t be, y’know, can’t be seen at all talking to anybody because of the Obama administration’s use of the Espionage Act — a very arcane 1917 act that was instituted by the guy I call the original Neo-Con, Woodrow Wilson — being used to put people in the government, and in the contracting community, in prison for violation of this law, and in this respect, Obama is ten times worse than George W. Bush, and that’s being kind. Bush, I don’t believe has used the Espionage Act against a whistleblower per se, but, of course, did use it against somebody in the NSA. Ken Ford, who I’ve written extensively about, who had information that there were no WMDs in Iraq, and after last night’s MSNBC special, we once again have been told that that was a big charade… the WMDs. But as far as going after people that talk to the press, Obama is much worse than Bush, and I never thought I’d say that, I never thought I’d have the opportunity to say that anybody would be worse than Bush, in any respect, but certainly Obama is worse than Bush in this respect.

BARRETT: And not only is this to ask, why is that? Because, one, live analysis is that the Neo-Cons were the driving force behind 9/11, that they hooked up with Bush and, y’know, the Bush crime mob, and that it was essentially a coup de tat, and rolled back the Constitution, and created a USA along the model of the Straussian Neo-cons that they’d always wanted, but Obama is supposedly a creature of the realists, people like Brzezinski, who presumably want to roll back the War on Terror, and go a lot easier on turning the United States into a lockdown police state, and yet as you say Obama has been worse on whistleblowers, and worse in many ways on civil liberties than Bush was. What can possibly be the motivation for this?

MADSEN: Well, meet the new boss, same as the old. Y’know, with Bush we had the CIA because of the father, and Prescott the grandfather, and then in this case, I’ve written….I wrote this book about, y’know, Obama and his family’s ties with the CIA, and I just think it’s still this agency…and people say “oh, the CIA can’t do everything.” Well, there is the CIA headquartered in Langley, Virginia, that, y’know multiple building headquarters, and that’s “the CIA”, y’know, the brick-and-mortar CIA, but when I say CIA, I’m talking about the larger-than-the-CIA, which include all kinds of front companies, people who once worked for them but now work in the shadows, contractors, and foreign associates who may have gone rogue, or may not have gone rogue, may have gone rogue and then get, y’know, activated again by certain elements within our government. So that’s the CIA, and I think is controlled by both the Bush administration and this administration. It’s not that headquarters where you’re going to go in there and find files on all these events and these people. This is a very amorphous organization, but one that continues to exisit and go unpunished for its crimes.

BARRETT: Well, it’s interesting, because if you’re looking for continuity between this history of big crimes, starting with the JFK assassination and continuing on through 9/11, and all of these many murders, it does seem that the CIA has played a fairly noticeable role in all of this, with, as I said earlier, Cord Meyer, the CIA Operation Mockingbird Chief, being named as a lead as a JFK conspirator by Howard Hunt…and it seems that this kind of dirty side of the larger CIA that you’re talking about has been involved in a whole series of these crimes related to, y’know, overturning democracy, or, y’know, rolling back the Constitution, since 1963. And of course, people point to JFK having threatened to tear the CIA up into little pieces and scatter it to the winds, to basically eliminate the entire covert operations side of CIA and give that over to the military… all of these things have been cited, so do you think if we were going to do one reform to try to get a handle on all these abuses, do you think maybe abolishing the CIA, or at least its covert operations side, would do it?

MADSEN: Oh, yeah, and Senator Moynihan from New York wanted to do that, he said turn them back into an intelligence gathering organization, put them back under the State Department from which many of them came, and get rid of all the covert, clandestine services, special ops and all that…of course, he said that after he announced plans to retire from the Senate, and his seat was taken by Hillary Clinton, who certainly hasn’t show any inclination to agree with anything her predecessor Senator Moynihan had to say about that agency.

BARRETT: Okay, and of course there’s the private agencies as well, that as you say, may be tangentially affiliated with CIA; people like John Perkins the economic hitman, he and his colleagues actually worked for the banksters directly, they were not on the government payroll but they they were doing the same kind of thing. It’s all a big ugly mess, and it’s great that we have people like you, Wayne Madsen, to help clarify what’s really going on. Well, thank you Wayne, it’s been great, I hope to have you back on again. Keep up the good work.

MADSEN: Okay, you bet. Thank you very much.

BARRETT: Okay. Bye-bye.

MADSEN: Bye now.

BARRETT: That’s Wayne Madsen. He’s on the web at – that’s W-A-Y-N-E, Wayne, and Madsen is M-A-D-S-E-N. Highly recommended. If you’re going to actually  pay money to subscribe to any news service, you’d a lot better with Wayne than just about anybody else out there. Certainly a lot better than, oh, the New York Times or your local newspaper. I’m Kevin Barrett, this is No Lies Radio. Once again, my radio blog is, and the website is Back here next week, and tomorrow, I’ll have a really terrific show on the evil, rival network again – find out about it Until the next one, have a great Tuesday afternoon.