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john
United Kingdom
145 Posts |
 Posted - 07/25/2007 :
12:26:48
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You are a
member of what Mendelsohn called the Church of
Allopathy.
I always enjoy seeing what comes up, but hard to
convert as a Catholic.
You didn't answer any of my questions above but
call me a conspiracy nut, essentially, which is
the usual rationalisation used to block
non-allopathic heretical thought
http://www.whale.to/a/conspiracy.html
and allude to some studies out there somewhere
which either don't exist, or when you look at
them don't measure up, as Viera Scheibner found
when she looked at about 3,000. And there is
plenty of studies to show mercury causes autism.
And there are thousands showing vaccines are
dangerous and cause numerous diseases
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html
There are 2,000 peer review studies showing
vitamin c is good for infections and more, yet
it isn't used.
the smallpox vax was killing 25,000 babies every
year in the uk 1880, 6,000 in 1921, and that is
the gold standard of vaccines!
john
"Vaccination procedures are a highly politically
motivated non-science, whose practitioners are
only interested in injecting multitudes of
vaccines without much interest or care as to
their effects. Data collection on reactions to
vaccines is only paid lip service, and the
obvious ineffectiveness of vaccines to prevent
diseases is glossed over. The fact that natural
infectious diseases have beneficial effect on
the maturation and development of the immune
system is ignored or deliberately suppressed.
Consequently, parents of small children and any
potential recipients of vaccines and any
orthodox medications should be wary of any
member of the medical establishment (which is
little more than a highly politicised business
system) extolling the non-existent virtues of
vaccination."--Viera Scheibner
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Posted - 07/25/2007 :
12:57:48
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Lee77c
you really need to do a lot more research, you
have been brainwashed and fear mongered into
your beliefs.
I can tell for a fact Lee that many Doctors and
Scientists know the truth and do not vaccinate
their own children but have to keep mum about it
or be struck of.
alumiunium, mercury,formalyhide, etc etc of
course they are safe Lee as the drug company and
Doctor have told you and like a good conditioned
person you beleive them, now tell me why the
Doctor, polititian, or drug company who have
told all this is safe will not accept $75,000 to
drink a standard vaccine and prove to the world
that they practise what they preach.
HPV vaccine never tested for carcinagenic action
or if it will it cause barroness in woman, its a
huge bloody experiment our kids and if you cant
see that and allow yourself to be brainwashed by
pseudo science and scaremongering there is not
much hope.
please expalin why tens of thousand of peole
contract mumps and measles depste being fully
vaccinated?
please expain why they have found vaccine matter
in cancer tumours?
Please expain why vaccinated children are 2.5
times more likey to suffer from mental health
problems compared to non vaccinated children.
Big Pharma and their puppets in Government are
the biggest threat to your families health and
well being while they pretend to be the
opposite.
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Edited by - Barefoot on 07/25/2007 13:02:34 |
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Lee77c
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 :
14:57:18
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John, I
hate to point this out, but you were the one
that actually brought up conspiracy theories in
this thread.
I came to this discussion forum with an open
mind. I am extremely disappointed by the
conclusions you and Barefoot have drawn on me,
especially since you know next to nothing about
me. I am not brain-washed, I am not a member of
any church, catholic, allopathic or otherwise;
indeed I can see the benefit of many forms of
natural therapy.
I have conducted my own research into the
literature for and against vaccination (not
relying on the opinions of Veira Scheibner, who
is actually a Geology professor not an expert in
Biology, Biochemisty, Pharmacology etc.), and I
have done so with an open mind, letting the
evidence speak for itself. The evidence still
points to the fact that for significant numbers
of children, infectious childhood diseases are
serious and are cause for concern. From
everything that I have seen the over-whelming
majority of research also shows that
immunisation offers protection to children (and
adults for that matter) from many forms of these
serious infection.
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john
United Kingdom
145 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2007 :
00:21:43
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You say
that but it just isn't true. No victim of
medical propaganda has ever realised it. Having
a need to defend vaccination is pretty strange
in someone, I presume, with no financial or
pecuniary interest in the practice. Why would
anyone feel the need to do that otherwise?
A medicine of one group of medical people, and
unused by the rest.
Do you think you need a medical education to
understand the science, and a geology one isn't
good enough? How absurd. That is just ad hominem.
Only simple stats are needed and smallpox vax
was so easy to take apart I still have to pinch
myself to believe that so many people believe in
it.
You don't have any evidence, alluding to such
evidence isn't much help to me. I have taken
apart vaccination just with the stats.
"The subject of Vaccination, ... is,
fortunately, one on which anyone capable of
appreciating figures can form a sound opinion."
M. BEDDOW BAYLY M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P.
And anyone can see MMR is killing more now than
measles would be doing.
Put your evidence out for me to see, otherwise
you just sound like the average joe in the
street who has all these beliefs but no
argument. You can't debate without evidence.
Smallpox saved millions eg? Where is the
evidence for that? I have all the stats for the
first 120 years of vaccination. Can you point
out where I can going wrong in reading the
graphs as it looks to me with this one
http://www.whale.to/a/biggs_graph_g.html
that smallpox increased with vaccination.
john
"Truth is a fruit that can only be picked when
it is very ripe."--Voltaire |
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Aasa
Canada
99 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2007 :
01:37:59
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I have
just finished reading Gary Matsumoto's
"Vaccine-A The Covert Government Experiment
That's Killing Our Soldiers and Why GI's Are
Only the First Victims" (
http://www.vaccine-a.com/ ). That was a real
eye-opener! If governments and health agencies
which are there supposedly to help protect
people's health can covertly experiment on
citizens, in this case their own troops, without
obtaining informed consent, how can we trust
them to be doing the best by our children? These
same agencies deny, deny, and deny some more
when things start going wrong and adverse
reactions occur to whatever experimental
vaccines they were injecting in the name of
protecting soldiers from possible biological
weapons, often without any sort of informed
consent. If various agencies in the U.S. can be
vehement deniers of ingredients in anthrax
vaccines possibly causing signs and symptoms of
"Gulf War Syndrome" (such as autoimmune-like and
neurological disorders), I am sure that they
(including similar agencies in other
countries)are equally capable of similar
behavior regarding childhood vaccines which have
caused problems for some (perhaps even many)
children. It seems that they have too much
invested in these vaccines, to be able to easily
turn around and admit that they may have made a
mistake.
When I was a child, back in the 1950s and 1960s,
we had no vaccines for measles and mumps, and
although most of us contracted these diseases in
childhood, we overcame them with little fuss.
They were certainly not considered "dread"
diseases, at least not in the developed world.
Over the years, I have had coughs and colds that
were worse than what I ever experienced with
measles, mumps, or even chicken pox. |
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john
United Kingdom
145 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2007 :
08:47:33
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You can
see how they amde it more serious when they had
a vaccine to sell
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/measles12.html
more striking with chickenpox
http://www.whale.to/v/chicken1.html which
was harmless in 1890 but dangerous with
steroids--then then sell the vaccine because the
steroids kill people by taking down their immune
system.
The problem most people have with waking up is
the nasty realisation the vaccine/drug industry
is a psychopath, and the priests are mindlessly
following propaganda. 1 in 10,000 at a rough
guess know the reality. Although a short step is
just to follow homeopathy or naturopathy, you
then can avoid finding out the true nature of
allopathy.
With anthrax is is pretty obvious they are out
to injure their troops, although some say it is
an HIV vaccine experiment, but over 500,000
troops have been invalided out.
I think tghis interview nails it on the head
http://www.whale.to/v/rapp.html
"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that
immunization of children does more harm than
good."---Dr. J. Anthony Morris, former Chief
Vaccine Control Officer and research virologist,
US FDA |
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Lee77c
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 :
13:00:52
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"Having a
need to defend vaccination is pretty strange in
someone, I presume, with no financial or
pecuniary interest in the practice. Why would
anyone feel the need to do that otherwise?" -
John's view.
Contrary to some jaded opinions, there are
people who belong to the scientific, medical and
public health communities who believe in what
they are doing and are committed to protecting
the health of the population. I have my opinion
because I know how serious infectious disease
can be. Infectious diseases are not things of
the past, they are not trivial matters and they
can be a very real cause for concern
particularly for children and more vulnerable
members of the community.
At present there is a large measles outbreak in
Switzerland. Ten per-cent of the 443 cases for
which information was available required
hospitalisation. Although no deaths have occured
at present in this outbreak, seven per-cent were
hospitalised with pneumonia as a complication,
seven per-cent were suffering from Otitis media
as a serious complication and one per-cent (four
cases) were suffering from encephalitis
(inflammation of the brain).
http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ew/2007/070726.asp#1
These are not lies, this is not scare mongering,
they are simple facts.
"Do you think you need a medical education to
understand the science, and a geology one isn't
good enough? How absurd." quote from John.
No, I don't think you need a medical education
to understand science. I believe that in order
to understand science you need to thoroughly
research the arguments for and against, taking
into account the caveats and potential flaws on
both side, then come to a carefully reasoned
conclusion. Pre-judgment and bias chould have no
place in scientific discussion. I am not a medic
but I do know that the kind of sweeping
generalisation that have been made in previous
posts in this thread do not represent the whole
picture and are misguided to say the least.
To say that these diseases aren't serious, and
that nobody used to worry about them back in the
days when they were rife, is a blinkered, gross
misrepresentation of the facts. Even if people
choose not to vaccinate, they must be made aware
that these diseases can prove very serious and
that there is a need to seek medical advice if
their child is suffering from such a disease.
To say that these diseases are nothing to worry
about is misguided and irresponsible.
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Janet
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 :
15:53:36
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At least
you can seek medical advice and treatment for
these diseases unlike ailments caused by
vaccinations - I know this from experience.
My trust in vaccinations was obliterated by a
network of psychopathic Health Professionals and
Civil Servants who foolishly attempted to
cover-up a vaccine blunder involving my child. |
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john
United Kingdom
145 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 :
17:50:28
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Allopathy
has to make a big song and dance about measles
for obvious reasons. If they can't handle
measles let the doctors who can do so!
And as I said many times before, MMR
deaths excede measles deaths, and
MMR disease exceeds anything measles ever did,
and as Janet says, treating measles is a lot
easier than autism and nasty bowel diseases.
And at the risk of boring myself to death by
repetition, measles vaccination never eliminated
measles deaths, so MMR vaccination wouldn't have
prevented any of the measles situation in
Switzerland, for one thing over 50% of
those will have been vaccinated.
After three years of study, a Medical Working
Group representing 180 Swiss medical doctors
specializing in general medicine, internal
medicine and pediatrics published an article in
the Spring 1992 Journal of Anthroposophic
Medicine entitled "The Immunization Campaign
Against Measles, Mumps and Rubella, Coercion
Leading to Uncertainy: Medical Objections to a
Continued MMR Immunization Campaign in
Switzerland," concluding that mandatory, mass
vaccination with MMR vaccine is ineffective and
dangerous.
'ineffective and dangerous'
But pretty obvious when you look at all of the
evidence without blinkers. Mind you, you can't
beat medical mind control
"network of psychopathic Health Professionals
and Civil Servants"
Hit the nail on the head there
http://www.whale.to/b/psychopaths_h.html
best to know your enemy.
john
"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that
immunization of children does more harm than
good."---Dr. J. Anthony Morris, former Chief
Vaccine Control Officer and research virologist,
US FDA |
Edited by - john on 07/27/2007 18:12:16 |
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