Interview of Leonard G. Horowitz, D.M.D., M.A.., M.P.H. by Gary Null 1995. http://www.garynull.com/ http://www.tetrahedron.org/
NULL: What evidence can you present on these diseases, Ebola, Marburg, AIDS?
HOROWITZ: One of the things which we publish is the "Special Virus Cancer Programme" and the information that comes out of that programme, what might be called a secret cancer virus programme that was conducted between 1962 and 1974 by researchers at the National Cancer Institute (NCI) in co-operation with biological weapons developers for the dept of Defence, and in those documents it shows very clearly that what those researchers did was that they took things like the Simian monkey virus (SV40), and they essentially extracted the DNA out of it and they infused it with other types of nucleic acids like RNA from cat leukaemia, from chicken sarcoma, and that created a mutant, a new kind of germ, which still had a difficult time infecting humans. And because these researchers were investigating human cancers and human vaccines, allegedly for the prevention of human cancers they then cultured these types of organisms in human cell cultures or in foetal tissues which created whats called surface membrane changes, such as in the AIDS virus its called GP120 proteins on the external envelope that would allow these new mutants to attach to the human membranes, be carried across the cell membranes, enter the genes of the cell, or the genome of the cell, then essentially do everything the AIDS viruses do, or other viruses are alleged to do, if you take into consideration that HIV may not be the sole cause of AIDS.
So I look back on the early history, of for example Dr Gallo had come out with clearly a false speculation that stated that the African Green monkey (AGM) bit an African and then a Portuguese seaman who carried this virus over to Portugal some 500 years ago, and the evidence we have from the scientific literature shows clearly that the Simian Green Monkey for example never had these types of AIDS like viruses in them. In fact the history shows that Maurice Hillman at Merck who was the chief vaccine developer imported the AGM into the US specifically because it did not have these viruses that they were finding were breaking out in their laboratories and therefore creating a major risk in the incorporation of them into the vaccines that they were developing at the time, and I am sure on your travels you have learned recently that some of the polio vaccines, the old polio vaccines, and even some of the ones used today may be containing viruses such as Cytomegalovirus or what Dr Martin calls the stealth virus, and the issue as I see it is that these emerging viruses were emerging from the NCI researchers laboratories.
They were not emerging from the wild, so today the Blacks have been blamed for AIDS. The gays have been blamed for AIDS. The monkeys have been blamed for AIDS & Ebola, and you know what? That is a bunk, complete bull. The truth of the matter is that the NCI researchers in co-operation with a narrow network of virologists who are being paid by the Dept of Defence to investigate these types of viruses, and the viral vaccines made from them. Their biohazard and containment in their facilities were abysmal, and just like the recent Texas outbreak of Ebola, the other outbreaks---we have had monkey AIDS outbreaks over half a dozen times in the major vaccine production labs, as well as the research labs---the reason for this is because once you create these viruses they are very easily transmitted from one animal to the other in these facilities, and that as I see it is where viruses are emerging from.
NULL: The evidence is going to have to be submitted to convince this audience. A lot of people have made these in the past. We have all seen or heard of the Strecker memorandum, and Dr Eva Snead, but no one has had actual documents except for some document presented of some research being planned, but I want some specifics. First one thought, no ad hominem attacks, I want the documentation
NULL. How was it made, why was it made?
HOROWITZ: I can tell you for sure that if there is, and I believe there is, a particle known as HIV, I can tell you absolutely for sure that Dr Robert Gallo .based on research from publications of 1970 of the proceedings of the National Academy of Scientists, and in 1971 Nature New Biology, Robert Gallo and his associates at Litton Bionetics which was 6th on the list of major army biological weapons contractors for 1969, directly out of the congressional record, is my citation there Gary, that these folks clearly created numerous AIDS like viruses in their labs.
NULL. What is your proof?
HOROWITZ: What they were creating were viruses that would attack the immune system. They essentially, in these reports,they took SV40, which was the 40th Simian monkey virus discovered by Maurice Hilleman, at Merck, and they took this monkey virus, and they extracted the nucleic acid out of it leaving a blank viral envelope, technically called a phage, and then they infused it with cat leukaemia RNA, and anyone who knows AIDS victims will know they suffer from a laundry list of cat leukaemia like symptoms, and then they put chicken sarcoma RNA, and they took that combination, called a viral hybrid, and what they were looking for was a diagnostic test for human leukaemia, and also a vaccine to prevent human leukaemia, and sarcomas, and interestingly enough like you said earlier we never had the skyrocketing incidence of leumeias and sarcomas, and Karposis sarcoma was almost unheard of---elderly men got it, occasionally Africans got it but it was a benign type of Karposis sarcoma that they got. Well interestingly enough between 1962 and 1974 in the Special Cancer Virus Research Programme which was published by the NIH you see that leukaemia sarcoma complex was the principle cancer researchers study area that they were concerned with, and what they did, to get it to be a useful diagnostic test for human leukaemia and sarcoma, and to develop vaccines, they then cultured it in human white blood cells so it would allow it to jump species. That is how it could possibly jump species. If you have these monkeys in the monkey facility where the containment was abysmal, recorded in the Congressional record, in the early 60s. Bernice Eddy and Mary Stewart were the first researchers to discover the SE Polyoma virus, the first virus know to cause cancer in almost every animal that it was injected into, and interestingly enough it was later determined that that was identical to SV40, that these researchers took and they modified it with leukaemia virus, cat leukaemia RNA, and chicken sarcoma RNA, and essentially these things were breaking out all throughout their labs and we have recordings that show the researchers were extremely concerned about these outbreaks that were going on in their own facilities.
The AIDS type of viruses were definitely being produced.
NULL: They would argue that they were doing it for cancer research in order to help find an answer to cancer.
HOROWITZ: Absolutely, but we have an abstract accepted wherein we state we could not rule out the genocidal theory. There essentially was a document which we also published in an earlier book called Deadly Innocence and we reprinted the text out of it which literally is an appropriations request from the Dept of Defence in 1970 wherein they request 10 million dollars for the development viruses to essentially knock out the human immune system, and this was, we tracked down, a request that was put through from the highest positions of the US government that virtually the buck stopped with Henry Kissinger according to the Frank Church investigations commission which was investigating the illegal storage of biological weapons by the CIA in 1975, which was several years after Nixon signed the Geneva accord outlawing those types of practices. What we found was that it was the National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council, Gary, that informed the Dept of Defence that these types of biological weapons could be developed over 5 years for a cost of 10 million dollars, and we learned that it is most plausible that how the NAS and NRC was able to inform the Dept of Defence that, was because they were already doing that. Researchers that I have talked about at the NCI, had those contracts beginning in 1962 to actually do that work, and we published the proof it the book Emerging Viruses. I literally took the governments own documents I found in the basement of Davis Library, University of N Carolina an incredible book called the Special Virus Cancer Programme which had all the government contracts including what they did and how much they were paid, and based on that evidence it is clear to me how it was that they could inform the Dept of Defence that they could do that in 5 years.
NULL: How was it created and how did it get into population groups?
HOROWITZ: Well, I am very very clear that how it got into population groups was through the vaccines, there is no question in my mind based on the tremendous amount of scientific evidence that is available now that the polio vaccines were laced with Simian viruses, SV40 and others, because once you place a virus which is highly unstable in a serum or a media that has other virus particles in it you get recombinants, you get hybrids, mutants, and ultimately these were incorporated in the live vaccines and in fact they are still being used to a great extent. I think listeners would be appalled that some of the vaccines that are being currently being used are still laced with viruses, so my thesis shows that the most plausible way in which the American gay community and the central African community became infected with the AIDS like viruses or AIDS virus, the most plausable, and I am not saying absolutely, I am laying out a tremendous amount of evidence for the readers to interpret. I am saying the most plausible way the outbreak happened was through the Hepatitis B vaccines that were administered simultaneously in New York City and central Africa between 1970 and 1974, and they were produced by Merck .now this should be investigated by the highest scientific authorities.
NULL: Would it be easy enough to get a sample of vaccine?
HOROWITZ: You know what? Even to this day, the government, the FDA is refusing to use the sophisticated biotechnology to evaluate the contaminants in the vaccines such as the polio vaccines that they are administering.
NULL: Are you aware that the hep B virus has never been isolated?
HOROWITZ: Well the antigens certainly have
NULL: The actual virus has never been isolated, Hep B, Hep C has never been isolated. No one can show a complete Hep B virus.
HOROWITZ: What I am saying is that because of the contaminants, recombinants within the viruses, as I said before, if you have a viral particle for example, and then you have a Simian monkey virus next to it it is very plausable that the contaminant, the RNA or DNA particle, or whatever you want to call it, could easily integrate into the Simian virus and then become a virus, so there are a lot of ways to look at it, and you have to be very critical, like you said earlier, to really evaluate what is going on as there is so much disinformation going on out there.
NULL: So what you are saying is those people who received this experimental hepatitis B vaccine in the 1970s were more likely to have had a cross contaminant from one of the original viruses. Do you in any way associate what Dr John Martin calls the Simian cytomegalovirus, the stealth virus, is a part of this?
HOROWITZ: It could very well be, and Dr Martin would be one authority that I would ask legislators and the scientific community, to get to evaluate lots of the experimental vaccines that the FDA is currently, by law, holding on to, because he could in a couple of days tell you whether indeed the thesis in Emerging Viruses, or the polio vaccines, or the hep B vaccine, whether they are the source of these contaminants.
NULL: What was the CIAs role in all of this, if any?
HOROWITZ: They were running a project called NKNAOMI. And that was the secret weapons biological programme, and in 1969 at the Dept of Defence appropriation hearings were held it was the CIAs conjecture that the Russians were going to be beating America to the biological weapons unless we did something and the CIA alleged that they were far ahead of us. The story goes that we were the premier bio-weapons developers in the world. The CIA brought over in project Paperclip 900 of the top Nazi scientists including their top biological weapons developer Eric Trope who the evidence shows went to work for the Navy and the University of California where Peter Deusberg was associated with and Erich Traub gave rise to the dept of virology out there. Now the CIA was intimately interested in a variety of viruses and the Church commission hearings noted that beside the shellfish toxin, that was the only thing the media covered. It is amazing how there is no in depth reporting here in the USA. People my age in their mid 40s might remember the reports about 1975 where the CIA was being blamed for holding onto shellfish toxin. Well, if you go into the records they were holding onto more than shellfish toxin, they were holding onto Venezuelan encephalomyelitis, and all sorts of other viruses, and that was in 1975, about 5 years after the 10 million dollars was given to the development of AIDS like viruses, so they were clearly holding onto viruses that could knock out immune systems by that time, and so the role of the CIA is interesting. In my book I lay out the entire social and political background which Henry Kissinger, for example, ordered the CIA to go to Central Africa, Zaire and Angola in fact became the major stand against world Communism after the Vietnam war, and people dont know that too often.
That is very interesting because that is very close to the centre of the AIDS epidemic, and interestingly enough there was an organisation that the Russians as late as 1987 were saying was affiliated with the Pentagon and the CIA which we traced top CIA researchers that were initially Hitlers group that came over in Project Paperclip and they were in Eastern Zaire very close to the Ugandan border and also right close to the AIDS highway and the alleged centre of the outbreaks of Ebola & AIDS, NW Uganda. That is EXACTLY where the principal cancer research laboratories and monkey colonies were, right, very very close to where this CIA activity was going on. Intense National Cancer Institute (NCI) activity was going on. So all these are of course circumstantial evidence. When you lay out all the circumstantial evidence you have to conclude that 2/3rds of the American Black community that feel that the genocidal theory might be supported, they are absolutely right. There is no question in my mind that there is a tremendous amount of evidence to suggest that there is some foul play on the part of the CIA.
NULL: Do you believe that the Ebola virus evolved in the wilds of Africa, and have you heard of the NW strain found in several monkeys imported into Texas?
HOROWITZ: Yes, indeed. They published studies, for example, John Landon who was director of Litton Bionetics, and he had taken what was called Rabdo virus, or rabies type of viruses, called rabdo viruses simian, and I show in the book that the worlds leading expert in identifying and diagnosing these new viruses---actually they called them emerging viruses back then ---they had the contract for being the number one person to tell us what type of viruses these were. As I said before they were recombining, they were mutating, there were different combinations so it was very difficult to understand which was which. Well he himself, we have published his statement to a conference, late 1960s, shortly after the Marburg virus outbreak, the mother of Ebola, which broke out in 3 vaccine production facilities simultaneously in 1967, in Europe. Shortly thereafter he gets up in a symposium and says "I believe that this Simian Virus is man made". That is a quote, and so you have the worlds leading expert at the time who had the contract for the NCI to tell all other doctors what types of viruses they are, saying this, so it is not just me saying this. But then, what happened was in the Special Cancer Virus Programme book, John Landon says that he took 18 Simian monkeys in about 1965/66 through 1970 this experiment ran, and he inoculated 18 Simian monkeys with rabdo virus simian which again all, most of the leading experts, the consensus was that the Marburg which was the mother of Ebola, that that originated from Rabdo virus Simian. Here was a study, John Landon took 18 Simian monkeys, inoculated them with rabdo virus simian and then 9 of them died and 9 of them he said were transferred. Now everyone that has seen the movie outbreak knows that the monkeys that lived developed antibodies to the infection, and those were the monkeys that were very valuable to vaccine development and those were the monkeys that were shipped off to the vaccine development labs, so I actually site in the book the most plausible study which gave rise to the first Marburg virus outbreak in 1967.
NULL: When you look at the viruses, especially since we have been told that no monkey, chimp, Baboon has ever developed AIDS, and only recently when they were able to use chemotherapy to first destroy its immune system, the one developed AIDS like symptoms, but it has never been from the actual original HIV. In the lab can the transformation be made from the Simian SIV virus to HIV 1?
HOROWITZ: Yes indeed it has been shown, as a matter of fact the NHI last year gave 1.6 million to a researcher from the University of Kentucky for doing just that, taking the human AIDS virus and from that developing the monkey AIDS virus, and I show that the most plausible way in which the human AIDS virus developed was from the evolution of SV40 through a series of mutations to become the human AIDS virus, exactly step for step the reverse of what Nurian showed at the university of Kentucky.
NULL: The answer to that is yes. Who was the principal supplier for African Green Monkeys for vaccine research?
HOROWITZ: That interestingly enough, and here is where I think you have to be a fool and you do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand the implications. Litton Bionetics, now Litton industries is one of the worlds premier weapons contractors. In 1969 there were 6th on the list of the list of Americas, and they had a sub division called Litton Bionetics which was 6th on the list of the Armies major biological weapons contractors and in the Special Cancer Virus Programme book, and in my book I reprint the contracts they had in order to provide every cancer researcher throughout the world with everything that was needed for primate research.. That is all the monkeys, all the monkey viruses, all the monkey cell lines, all the monkey testing reagents, everything in regard to primates, that is what Litton bionetics had. So the thesis, the theory I am proposing for readers to critically evaluate for the scientific community to critically evaluate, legislators, is a very good likelihood that given the fact that it was Litton Bionetics lab researchers, that is John Landon, Robert King, co-working with, working side by side, sometimes even with Dr Robert Gallo who was directing this group from the NCI, that these are the folks intimately involved with the development of AIDS like viruses. The theory is that in their labs were monkeys that they were testing these things on, the biohazard containment was abysmal, the viruses spread, and then these labs, Litton Bionetics in North West Uganda, as well as in Bethseda, and N Carolina, I am saying that it was easily plausible to have them ship monkeys to other research labs that were infected with these slow viruses that you could not tell the symptoms from
NULL: Lentil, means slow growing.
HOROWITZ: Exactly, and interestingly enough 2 weeks ago at a National AIDS conference I sat down with Max Essex who is director of the Harvard AIDS Institute who is the discoverer or HIV 2 which when he first discovered it in Senegalese women in West Africa he stated that "this is the missing link". He felt that this was for sure how HIV 1 was initially developed from. I sat down with him and I said could you please tell me how other than through vaccines could HIV 2 which you wrote you found in Senegalese women which has now shown to be virtually identical to the Simian Immuno deficiency virus from the Macaque monkey, which is known to be a monkey virus contaminant, lab contaminant, that is NOT found in monkeys in the wild. How could this end up in Senegalese women in the wild, other than vaccines? And he really had great trouble, he could not and did not answer my question directly, but he did say what I thought was extremely interesting. He said how his monkeys got contaminated was because the monkeys were in some other researchers facility prior to his, and those researchers inoculated those monkeys with human tissues for various experiments, and then the monkeys were shipped onto his lab for analysis of HIV. Now that just goes to show you the biohazard and containment was absolutely abysmal. The techniques that were being used, the monkeys were being transferred from lab to lab, from country to country, it was an accident waiting to happen, and interestingly enough guess who held the major contract for making sure these outbreaks didnt happen? It was Dow Chemical, they were paid about 348,000 dollars which interestingly enough was only 1% of the entire 34.8 million budget to make sure outbreaks of this type didnt happen, and apparently they failed in their job.
NULL: Do you believe the vaccines in current use in the US are safe?
HOROWITZ: Absolutely not.
NULL: Do you believe the vaccines we were using over the past 25/30 years have been safe?
HOROWITZ: Absolutely not.
NULL: Do you believe any of these vaccines may have had viruses from the contaminated African Green Tree Monkeys out of the US that were used for vaccines.
HOROWITZ: Absolutely yes.
NULL: So you believe that by having vaccines that are contaminated, that vaccines from the monkeys themselves having cross reactive viruses could have had some of these stealth viruses hitherto for not seen in the monkey end up mixing with contaminants to create new and very virulent forms of activity?
HOROWITZ: Highly plausible.
NULL: Do you feel that may have been one of the causes of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS)?
HOROWITZ: Absolutely, based on the evidence of Dr Martin. Yes.
NULL: So you believe then that AIDS had its origins through misguided programmes of viral research, ostensibly in one direction to help with cancer treatments but originating from industries that had specialised in Biowarfare research, that these could have been contaminated in that contamination process since there were no methods to determine the contamination especially if it is stealth viruses, that when you take a, something indigenous to monkeys, by the way just as an aside, I was able to have film Africans eating the African Green Tree Monkey, also rats, a regular part of their diet with no HIV contamination there in their natural environment, but once they are taken from their natural environment into a lab you genetically mix human tissue, chicken embryos, and at some point in that genetic sequence, if they mix improperly you can come up with something that does not resemble anything you intended and it has a life of its own. It gets into a vaccine, it gets into a specific population group, waiting for other opportunistic cofactors to bring down the persons immune system. Is that what you are telling us?
HOROWITZ: Yes indeed. In Emerging Viruses I conclude. The question I ask is it natural, accidental, or was it genocidal. I conclude definitively that these are not natural. They did not naturally evolve. They evolved in labs.
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