Bielek, Al Nichols, Preston
Interview with Duncan Cameron and Preston Nichols
Interview with Duncan Cameron and Preston Nichols
DC = Duncan Cameron PN = Preston Nichols SS = Sovereign Scribe
SS: Regarding the Montauk experiments, you said the tunnel was large enough to drive a truck through; where did they drive the truck?
DC: Where did they drive the truck? Well it's a figure of speech that you can drive a truck through. There are all sorts of associated phenomena that pass through whether it be information or people or such.
PN: But first of all, get the truck underground.
DC: ... Something that wasn't ground level. It was underground. it was underground. All the time-space stuff was underground.
PN: It was at the summit with the Delta T structure.
SS: How far down was it?
PN: 1/4 of a mile, maybe somewhere between a thousand feet and 1/4 of a mile. It was way underground. This is according to our recollection. We have no proof of it of course.
SS: Could there be a reason for it being underground?
PN: The reason was essentially they built, see the Montauk time and space portal was essentially an artifact that came out of what we call a Delta T antenna. You have a picture of a big thing made out of wood with wires shaped like this. That's what we call the Delta-T antenna. The portal actually appears in the center of that. If you pump this thing right. They had trouble building this above ground because when they started to test above ground the fields from the transmitting equipment were so strong that they had to locate it low enough below ground that there would be a neutral point between the fields of the equipment and the building above ground and the fields from the antenna way below ground because at that neutral point sat the chair that he [Duncan] sat in.
So I have to point out also that they did not want any of the raw pulse. See this antenna took the raw pulse from the pulse modulators of the radar transmitter and essentially put it into Del Cross F Cross E Cross B Cross G function. Which means they were essentially generating gravitational waves that would enfold into space-time waves in itself. And you could make a time-space portal; only one end of it was controllable, such, in '83 you could make an extension of it anywhere in the past, present or future you wished. If I took this antenna here and added in pulses from a pulse modulator in a radar transmitter it would probably wipe out every TV set within about 50 miles of it. But they had to keep this thing far enough under ground so that the EMR electromagnetic interference would not be radiated. Also they wanted to make it big enough, I think it was 250 feet, this one was 10 foot. I think the one we had at Montauk was 250 feet to 300 feet - something like that. This one, the actual portal might be that big (a few inches) but if you've got one that's 10 times the size and is like that you could literally have a portal... I believe the portal size was 10 to 20 feet that they were actually able to create. I could make a portal maybe 2 inches here cause the antenna's small.
Of course above ground there would have been certain construction problems. With making the thing below ground where they have the undergrounders making holes in the floor and pass the pipe and the wires through the floor and the thing up and you don't have to worry the wind's going to blow it down and this sort of thing. There's a number of reasons that it was underground.
SS: And also you said it would be harder to detect?
PN: Yeah, who's going to see it from the air?
SS: Wouldn't they'd pick it up?
PN: Also the Hertizan leakage would be way down if it's underground. It wouldn't wipe out TV in Montauk. Montauk is so far out they have huge power and rotary beams that they can look at Boston or they can look at Rhode Island or Connecticut or New York with. And the signal strength at Montauk is very weak so it lakes nothing to interfere with the TV in Montauk. They don't want to get the Town up in arms.
SS: Did they use that to build the legendary city on Mars?
PN: This is the information we have. We have not been able to back it up. It is only memories of Mr. Cameron and Mr. Bialek. I was not involved with that part of it myself. It wasn't that they built the big city. They found an ancient earlier civilization that was abandoned. They first got to Mars and realized that yes, there had been a civilization there at one time and the above ground of it was crumbled back into dust. But they did detect huge underground installations which were still making magnetic fields and this sort of thing that they could detect and they realized that there was still machinery running underground and of course they first went all around Mars and they couldn't figure out how to get down underground without bringing boring equipment and cutting a tunnel right down in. When Montauk had the working capability it would be nothing to target the other end of the vortex from '83 through to whatever time they wanted to inside Mars itself and this is what they did. And Duncan himself can talk of stuff he saw on Mars.
SS: What did you see?
DC: Something that has recently come up -- both Preston and myself were in a private meeting in Long Island with a man who was known in the UFO field. He spoke; he was giving some pictures regarding UFO's. He came up with some photographs having to do with the moon Phobos. I reacted to that strongly. When I recall physically, there is a physical reaction and I'm startled. After spending a little bit of time with that -- investigating it, it now seems from my own investigating and outside reading per se. When I say I am reading, I am basically sensitive to electro-magnetics and can access information zones whether they be on a local scale, the Akashic which is in domain systems or out of domain, higher evolved and such.
Information that I got from the outside information zone is that there is a system which still is on Mars. It originally was an electronic crystal type system which was part of the defense structure for the solar system that has been turned off. Defense meaning to keep for ones self. In that sense we all have energy fields about us and there is a defense posture to keep outside influences away. If you think on a planetary scale in a solar system, if such defenses were set down, if that were one of the stations per se, to keep out nasties or to keep the intelligence within the solarsystem alive and dynamically moving, if that were to be shut off there would be all sorts of obtrusions that would not ordinarily come through.
Whether that was one of the directives involved in the Mars project or if that was one of their aims as such or by products, the defense system on Mars is down and there are all sorts of associated troubles and disturbances because of that. It's a linked system that we haven't quite figured out the other aspects of. I could go on, it's just a quick brief thing. Both myself and Al, according to recall, have been there mostly on a directed mission, per se. Sort of like a 'seeing eye'. Part of my duties at Montauk were to basically to be in sort of a trance-type system and have something pass through me which would be -- how do I say -- for information's sake going places or something. It was one directive system so I can only tell you on very linear function what happened. Basically I was there just to see about. Basically it would be 300 or 400 feet underground plus the cavern type systems. There are all sorts of symbolical references there. Tonal frequencies. It wasn't necessarily a generator per se, but all sorts of frequencies that were very much alive -almost as though some kind of intelligence, per se. It was part of my duty to go and investigate and see what occurred. So that was more or less the two things that I saw.
SS: Did you see traveling back in time, did you see a civilization on Mars?
DC: No, not I. Not myself. Possibly with Al. I only had 5 or 6 specific missions that I was involved in, as part of my recall. Having to do with Al I don't know. Until recently I have been denying any associations having to do with the Philadelphia Experiment or Montauk or associated problems because of a denial system within myself so now I am moving ahead and trying to learn and reeducate myself so I am looking out for more information even as we speak.
SS: Did the face on Mars have a function beyond decoration?
DC: That's a good question. I've never looked at that. In that sense I could only be speculating.
Montauk was responsible for conditioning and influencing the consciousness of the earth. That was one of the priorities, possibly, tools to work with to condition and control people.
PN: The information source from what I remember your reading said that it was essentially a defense for our whole solar system. The Mars system would be protecting us well. That's the first thing they would do was to shut that off so they could get in.
DC: That would make sense.
SS: So if they had it on before Montauk then Montauk went up and shut it off...
PN: Somebody went from Montauk through the portal that was from space point A to space point B probably in real time. The first thing they would do was shut that switch off. They had to somehow sneak into the defenses and turn the switch off. Maybe they had the key to shut it off. I don't know. I wasn't part of that project. I was the guy that did the electronics on the project. I was not involved with who went where. I don't believe I went anywhere particular place in time.
SS: Do you know who is using that kind of equipment now?
PN: Undoubtedly the secret government still has some more equipment. I can't believe that they're leaving it alone. I don't think the monster in '83 scared them off completely. They slowed it down some but I'm sure it's back on line running full force right now somewhere.
SS: Is there any way to detect that?
PN: I pick up signals from similar projects all the time. But signals that Montauk sent out sounded very much like the Buzzsaw that was sawing the microphone in half that you talk about in your magazine in your first article (Vol. 1 #131). The Montauk function sounds very similar, in fact it's been speculated that they're playing Montauk tapes in these other transmitters and that's what we hear as the Buzzsaw. Because the function is the same. It's the same kind of function. It's just a different emulation of the system. Montauk ran at 450 to 470 megahertz. What we're talking of today is 3 to 30 megahertz. But the modulations are the same as far as I can see.
SS: And that includes the tunneling effect?
PN; No, I'm talking about the mind control aspect of Montauk.
SS: How about the tunneling?
PN: Tunneling -- that would work the same because it is all thought forms. But you would have to go in to an actual time warping function such as the Delta T antenna.
DC: We somehow by chance or design ran into some girl in Long Island who I had some association with. She was troubled for a number of reasons and I followed her information basis back on a psychic read type system. and it seems like she was hooked up to something called 'Freedom Riders'. She had some degree of clairvoyance.
How the thing works: when the DOR sensor is connected it sends out a reverse of the DOR patternings and since you have an exact reverse oscillation being built by the transmitter, it cancels the real DOR oscillation. It cancels it right out. Then they transmit the orgone function in phase so it replaces the DOR function with the orgone function that's picked up by the orgone sensor. That is simply in a nutshell how this thing works.
In the '40's, '50's, and '60's, they sent up thousands of these things. There were 200 to 300 of these in the air each day. Now the interesting point to notice here is, if we look at all these different devices, they all have a bottle shape on the bottom-- that's the transmitter. And you notice they have roughly the same shape up at the top. This says that there is something estoteric here in the upper part of the unit, which we don't understand to this day.
Now if you look here, you'll see this is the modulator coil as outlayed in the diagram. It's got the same modulator coil inside this housing her.
SS: What's the power source?
PN: In this case, it's batteries. In the Biosonde it's AC.
SS: How long could they stay up there?
PN: A couple of days maybe. They'll float around until the balloon bursts and they had a parachute that slowly carried them back to earth. They can only transmit for about 3 to 4 hours. You could pressurize the balloon so that it rises to a point and breaks and comes down. Or you could pressurize it where it would float for days.
SS: Is that an actual orgone detector instrument?
PN: Well the thing is, the orgone and DOR output of these things is in the subtle energy realm. I don't know of any receiver that can detect the actual energetic function that is coming out of here, the actual modulation. You listen to this, you only hear a group of impulses. The DOR and orgone is inside those impulses and how to detect what's inside the impulses. I admit I don't know how to do it. I haven't had a chance to analyze it but I got a Radiosonde Receptor which is a receiver built to receive these things. It's a very strange circuit. The answer may be there, how to detect what this is sending, but I don't understand it at this point.
SS: But it's detecting what's there.
PN: You're talking about the actual detector itself.
SS: Yes. It [orgone] exists. The government hasn't said that it exists.
PN: No, they haven't. In Radiosonde circles this flat plate with the black stuff on it, they call a humidity detector. This is what detects the orgone. This little white rod here, this is a temperature sensing resistor, it detects the DOR. But also, this will detect humidity changes. The problem with this is as you dampen the thing, dry it, dampen ii, it goes out of calibration. After about 10 minutes of flight these things are useless. These things will hold their calibration for maybe weeks at a time.
But still it was lucky that they sent this up so someone picked up one of these things came down on the ground. They would see the white thermistor between these two thing-a-ma-bobs here and this plate down here. Now the plates sits between these two clips and these aluminum covers go over it. If you follow Reichian technology, aluminum lends to have a focuser for orgone. So they have the orgone sensor here with the aluminum plate over it, the aluminum plate will help pull the orgone to the orgone sensor. Copper focuses DOR. This is why Reich made the original orgone boxes out of steel or aluminum foil, but not copper.
Now this device here is a transmitter. After Duncan did his readings on these things, I realized what I had was a radionics transmitter. Whatever I put in would be sent out. Any of you people sensitive? All you do is take this and hold it. You'll feel your energies build up in it. It might get warm or it might get cool to you. That's essentially a resonator of hyperspacial energies, the psychic energy. And that design can be traced right to Wilhelm Reich through Brookhaven National Laboratories.
See, after Reich developed this package, he called up the government and told them that he had a device that could knock the violence out of thunderstorms and asked if they were interested. The government said, "Yes. We're interested!" They requested Mr. Reich to mail a prototype to Brookhaven on Long Island.
So they waited for a thunderstorm to approach and they sent it up into the clouds. As it approached, the thunderhead broke up and went around Brookhaven. Al Brookhaven there was a nice gentle sunlit shower while the area around was having a thunderstorm. So of course they were very interested. They worked with Mr. Reich to replicate the thing.
Now this transmitter, the silver box here, is a nice packaged AC device. We had to have a device that would sense; that's the input well. The first mode we played with was we took the orgone sensor from the Radiosonde and just plugged it directly into the transmitter. And now you can transduce your orgone. You hold this [sensor], you plug it in and turn it on. It's like sitting in an orgone box. This is picking up your orgone and building it up. We wanted to have a fancy witness coil so Mr. Cameron turned on his psychic sense, talked to someone in one of the higher domains, and he said we wanted to build a witness well. [A "witness" is anything that would carry the vibrations of the thing or place you want to sense or contact, such as, clothing or a possession would be witness to a person.] How do we go about doing it? And he channeled the whole design of this device including the well receiver, the circuit board and we made this input well. This input well turns out to be vastly superior to the input well of the Kelly box or an Heironymous box or any of those devices.
Now what this will do for you simply: you plug the wire into the transmitter. Whatever you dump in here [input well] this array of coils and receiver will pick up the electromagnetic component just as the chair picks up Duncan's electromagnetic component, and will transduce it to be broadcasted by the transmitter. This is essentially a miniature Montauk. Not of the power that they had. And if you put your hand in the well, turn the device on, it would start building up your energies.
How you use Radionics equipment, them am three ways. You can do a diagnosis with a radionics tuner where you get the rates, that where you put the witness in the witness well, you rub the rub plate and you tune the tuner until you get a maximum stick. (As you turn a tuner knob with one hand, you are rubbing a small 'plate' with the other hand; when you get a feeling of stickiness on the plate the tuner is at the right setting.) All that's telling you is whatever you're conceptualizing in your mind scans from low to high on the dial is in resonance when you get the "stick". You get several rate number systems you're using, you get the rates [from the position of the tuner knob], you go to the phone book of rates, took it up and see [what the diagnosis is.]
Now over on another column they'll be reversing rates the antirates. So you set the device to those rates, you throw the switch that says 'broadcast', and what it does it feeds the thing back so it oscillates and transmits to the person the reverse rates.
Now what is actually happening here? All the device is doing, it' a concentration point that's connecting you the operator to the mind of the subject. As you're scanning through, you're interrogating the subject's mind as to what's wrong with the body. Then when you do the treatment, you're actually instructing the person's subconscious mind what to do. As we all know, the subconscious mind is what directly controls the physical body, and if our conscious mind and subconscious mind stays in touch with each other, our subconscious mind has a foothold in the reality that can regulate the body correctly. As we get more paranoic and more upset and more bent out of shape and more crazy, the subconscious mind looses touch with the conscious mind. It means now the subconscious mind loose its foothold into reality. It doesn't know how to direct the body anymore. That's when we get sick. This is one of the major theories.
Now, if someone comes over and hits your leg with a sledge hammer it's going to break your leg. That's not caused by the subconscious mind loosing touch with reality. But disease that develop from outside influences such as germs and such, can be traced, it's believed by this group of people, to the subconscious mind not running the immune system properly to eliminate that irritant, and you get sick.
So what they try to do is find out, be interrogating the subconscious mind, what is wrong and telling the subconscious mind how to heal the body. The device itself doesn't heal. This is not a healing machine, this is just a broadcaster, what ever you put in the well for the primary witness, you can put any agent, thought form or whatever in the well just as you would with the radionics device. The energetic component of that stuff that you put in will tag along with the witness to the person and you can actually talk to the person's subconscious mind through this.
How you treat people -- there are three means essentially. The most common means is the reversing rate, which works psychically, by the people who designed the equipment. That's why you get the large book with all the rates and reverse rates in it.
Another way is through reagents such as homeopathic remedies, herbs, etc. which work on the subconscious mind and the subtle body. If the herb or reagent is purely an energetic effect, this will transmit the energetic effect to the person without using up the reagent.
Another mode they use was designed by Malcolm Ray in Britain. He made a box with two wells -- the reagent goes in one and distilled water in the other. He had cards that had geometric patterns or messages on them. The cards would contain thought forms. And as energy flowed from one well to the other well, it would impress the thought forms on the target well. The well does nothing with the writing or the ink on the paper, but it picks up and senses the thought that you put on the paper and transmits the thought to the subconscious mind.
SS: You mentioned in your talk about Montauk and the old universe
DC: There were a number of survivors, if my information is correct, of the old universe. If Montauk was as good and as manipulating as we believe, the concept was, those people who had a connection into an old Earth function -- we call it the old universe -- if they were coming from a system that was highly chaotic and had come into here into this framework, if those people had a connection with such a system that was basically going to the more chaotic side and if Montauk was trying to bring in a great chaotic system, and somehow the control group got wind of this, there could be and what we have information on was an attempt to try to bring in this high disruptive value. There's all sorts of associated other rumors in regards to this. It hasn't been factual; we don't have a lot of information per se. But there is some evidence to support some of what appeared in Star Wars, indeed is a fairly good account of an old system that was basically failing apart and is growing more and more chaotic.
SS: Old in terms of time and space, or are we talking about a parallel universe?
PN: It seems like to me it's a parallel universe thing. The legend base essentially that a long time ago there was a parallel universe. Probably most of mankind was in that old universe. it evolved into a totally despotic form of government that took hold and held for millenniums, which is essentially what the One World Government has here. They will be starling up a despotic form of government and through their technology base they're able to hold the population pretty much the way the mind control here is heading. And what happened was a small rebel group that were fighting this, and the right continued. It went on and on and on just as in Star Wars.
But somewhere along the line another group of beings entered the old universe. They came in and did something terrible. The legend has it that they were a life form, essentially ape-mind energies of sentient beings, but they would suck the life energy out of you. They came in and there was nothing they could do to stop them. At that point a small group of what was left put all of the technology that they had into breaking the dimensional barrier and broke into this universe, but sealed the hole up enough so that this other life form could not come into this universe. There have been suggestions at Montauk that they were trying to bring this other life form in. We have very little data to back that up at all. This is pure legend at this point.
SS: There's a lot of science fiction like that.
PN: Yes. That probably is based on almost like a racial memory from a long long time ago.
SS: What were you referring to when you spoke of the Montauk chairs?
PN: There were two generations of the Montauk chair. The original generation was built in a site know as ITT World-Wide Communications / Makay [sp?] Marine in Southampton Long Island. That one looked almost like a multi-pyramid structure with three coils. With that one they were able to use a more standard receiver structure. They use the ITT Makay Radio. what they call an ISB receiver which was based on a 1950 Hamilin [sp?] short wave receiver, the same receiver I used to listen to the "Buzzsaw". They made a very special carrier synchronizer system in what we call ISB detectors which is upper and lower side band. So it means you have two outputs and one input for your receiver. What the outputs would look like would be an imaginary carrier and then an upper and lower information band. They would tune the to three of the hyperspacial window frequency channels. So you would have an upper part of the window and a lower part of the window. So they actually had six outputs from the three receivers, two for each receiver.
Now the carrier processing --they would take-- lets say you were detecting the X coil, they would take the Y and Z coil summon and then use that to modulate the X coil and do the same thing for the Y and the same thing for the Z. And the synchronizing system that they'd come up with on the suppressed carrier ISB reception was such that it was what we call a phantom-phase-lock-loop system where you don't even need a carrier to lock. The thing locked on white noise. So that means the thing would lock itself on the Delta white noise in the window frequency.
That's how the first chair was built. That had to be a distances away because that was subject to the incoming fields. They had to locate that far enough away so the transmitter didn't interfere with it. It was microwave length from Southampton to Montauk.
Now they had problems with it because if the information was being sent and the reality glitch or a reality shift happened it was a glitch in the information. You've got to remember the Cray-Computer at Montauk. was working on timing functions so the timing of the six data streams was very critical. For some reason they did not want to move the Cray-I to the Southampton installation then send the two channels of digital information on the microwave length. May be there was configurations in the Cray-I that were much more secret than the chair was at that point. The Southampton's installation of course wasn't as high a security installation as Montauk was.
They went with RCA for the second chair. RCA built the second chair. RCA had receivers which were already designed on the Delta T function. So it means instead of having the Delta T and the coil structure. the Delta T function was now in the receivers. So now they're able to use standard XYZ Helmholz [sp?] coils.. Then the new chair was underground at Montauk and sat in a small room where the coils were close to the chair. In other words, let's say Duncan was sitting in the chair. There would be coils on both sides of him, around the head and around the feet, then more coils on the top and the bottom. They were hooked to three very specialized receivers designed in the 30's by Nikola Tesla which had Delta coil structures in the receiver stages. Then they used the same type of IF detection with the synchronized oscillation. They used the ITT Makay-phantom-lock design on the RCA receivers. In other words, RCA combined the lockup system of the ITT with their Delta T receivers, so the receiver looked almost identical in design. It had the same six channels of output, had the same upper and lower side bands.
SS: But much better design.
PN: The front end was a Delta T design. They didn't need Delta T in the coil. Now the Helmholz coil structure can be... the coils can be phased where they're insensitive to outside influences. So that means they're able to operate at Montauk directly and they didn't have the data problem of going over a 20 mile microwave length and getting timing glitches every so often that would throw the whole thought for in transmission helter skelter.
There also is believed that there is a third chair set up in Britain on the on the Thames River. We call that the Thames Chair we don't know exactly where on t he Thames River it is. That comes up in readings. The other two chain I have direct memories of 'cause I was involved in designing the RF equipment that was used with both chairs. So I did see and I do recall both coil structures and both receiver setups at this point.
SS: You said you could tell somebody who had been through Montauk by their aura?
DC: Yes I do.
SS: How? What do you see?
DC: Basically there's a color attachment to it. It's a yellow-green nauseous attachment, if I could use the word. That's the only thing that comes to mind directly. It's the fading as though someone had that aura of leprosy, so to speak. He was an outcast, that had this strange queerness about them which was as though they were, let's say, buried underground for years alive, having that sense of strangeness or queerness about them. It's very distinct. If you've been exposed to it and had the sensitivity to see it it's really around them.
SS: When you say attachment, does that mean it's just on one area?
DC: It's within the auric structure and there's also attachments that go outside. It's also associated strings attached to the people, as the psychic type energy function that are in association with a person and outside. All sorts of tag-along are associated to it.
SS: And these attachments are still attached to something on the other end?
DC: Oh sure. It's not a healthy energetic structure of the body which, if the system is working correctly, it does clean itself back to its original process. It's an indicate of things that am askew, for sure.
SS: We've heard of putting magnets on your body to increase the energy. Are there ways to do this by magnetics besides by using electronic devices?
PN: Well the thing you can say about magnetic fields is that a magnetic field is the portal or window into the shell function or the anti-matter world. So a magnet definitely is a multidimensional window. Magnetic fields are pure potential energy, they're a pure potential structure. Unless you move them. they don't do any work. if you move them they do work. This of course is normal physics at this point.
So the body is needing the magnetic potentials that are good and vitalize you. I've also seen people I hat magnets have a tendency to drag down instead of build up.
SS: Someone we know experienced that. He was unknowingly sleeping beside some heavy magnets and woke up drained of energy. Perhaps the magnets were facing the wrong way, if there's a difference.
PN: Yes, there is a difference. There's also another kind of ray that comes off the sides of the magnet between the north and south pole. It's almost like a ray emanating into a black hole, is the only way I can think to express it.
DC: It's something that we've recently been exposed to by a fellow named Jerry in Staton Island, New York.
PN: He's a psychic that sees magnetic fields. Those plates we put in the Biosonde yesterday were from Jerry. There is a coating of, in black point, of magnetic powders that somehow he's witnessing to the Earth through the telluric field of the earth. And all it's doing was transducing the orgone field of the earth into the room. That's why you got the cool breeze going through the room. And that's tied directly into magnetism.
SS: At the lecture you mentioned "entrainment"....
PN: The esoteric database that we subscribe to believes you can entrain 10% of a system you can entrain the other 90% of the system. Which means if you can raise the consciousness of 10% of the population the other 90% will fall into the pattern sooner or later. They'll fall in just on the fact that 10% are there. This can be backed up... we have what we call the museum, which is a whole stack of radio receivers. We found that if you can tune up 10% of them, the other 90% of them will fall into the pattern, no matter where they're tuned. The level seems to be 10%. If you're like at 8% there's partial entrainment. 10% is full entrainment. So the plateau seems to be 10% from the viewpoint of physics. Why that is we can't explain. it has something to do with frequency transformed and this sort of thing and we can't express it at this point.
SS: Does the frequency make a difference?
DC: What is the prerequisite is the intent into the tuning. To have intent and follow that intent as you go along. And when you start resonating with that intent you get a vibratory pattern which is gracious to it and falls into it. Then you follow that along and get 10% then the rest fall along behind it. But it's the intent for sure.