An Interview with Derrel Sims

As a UFO Investigator of 36 years with specialized education and experience as a Master Hypnotherapist, a Hypnotic Anesthesiologist, a Master Level in NLP, and as a student Handwriting Analyst, my stories are many.  I include here an overview of a few interesting case histories as it relates to hypnosis and in answer to questions from a fine UFO Investigator.

Copyright Saber Enterprises  2000c  All rights reserved.

Question: I was not aware of the comatose state that some abductees/experiencers suffer from.  I have not seen this in any of the literature nor have I heard of this from any other investigators or researchers.

  There are several good reasons why you are not aware of this comatose state.

 1).   Most of my work is not in print.  When my books, Best Evidence and Alienhunter come out a lot of this will be explained.

 2).  It is quite rare!

 3). When it does occur it is usually not recognized, rarely reported, and almost never heard of by others not involved in the case.

When this state is seen, neither the investigator nor the abuductee relates it to the UFO event.  The abductee would just be taken to the hospital.  The investigator would, in all likelihood, be upset and seeking medical intervention.  By this, I mean, you can’t wake the abductee and they will not respond to usual suggestions and techniques in use by a hypnotist or investigator.  In some cases, it is evident a catatonic state has been reached.  You can reposition the person and they will retain whatever position you place them in...  sometimes for hours.  One of the methods of knowing that the catatonic state has been accessed is through observation of these symptoms.  

In one case I was in Arizona (1993, I believe) speaking at a conference.  I was looking into the eyes of some individuals in attendance to ascertain certain claims of possible alien intervention.  (These were people claiming abductee experiences during which they had experienced potential physical evidence such as hematomas).  

I was using a small light at the time (not a flashing one that might induce or create a scenario for an epileptic seizure).  One lady literally went instantly into a catatonic state similar to the one described above.

The light, flashed directly into her eyes, may have taken her back to the actual event of a bright flash and then triggered a screen saver memory.  The screen saver memory is a memory that is installed for you by “them”…the alleged abducting entity(s).  The purpose seems to be a method to generate unrealistic stories of what happened.  This can cause the abductee to discredit his own actual event.  It is the real “false memory syndrome”.

In some events a bright light flash or constant brilliance can allow a person to feel or re-experience some unusual aspects of an event.  This was not the purpose of the light I flashed here, but was the result of its use.

She was speechless and unmoving.  Her breathing was normal.  She was totally “tranced out” due to the small light shined in her eyes.  I simply refocused her attention to my voice, and spoke to her in a way she complied to…she came out instantly.  The woman had no recognition of what had happened to her.  It was similar to an amnesia installation.  She simply had no memory between the event of the light that I had used and the bringing her out of trance.  She certainly did not hallucinate this trance state, nor did she think aliens had taken her.

  4). The investigator would have to know to look for this state, and what to look at.  The true investigative process leads to other cases and an opening to weave the threads between them.  This process leads to beginning new lines of investigation as well as help for the individual of the experience.  It is the difference between analysis and inquiry…the former leads to a “conclusion”…an inquiry can lead anywhere and may have multiple “possible answers” that can be built upon.

As an indirect illustration/example of how these kinds of things are missed, how many investigators are looking at the exact time an abductee is “tagged” (abducted)?  This is rarely looked at closely and can be significant.  It is usually in divisions, multiples, additions, and subtractions of 11’s.  Look under the appendices of Ray Fowler’s book, The Andreasson Affair, Phase 2.  The times are virtually all 11’s!

That is significant to me for many reasons.  I was born on 1/11.  Sometimes it just gets weirder out there.

  5). If this state is in use by “them” (and I think it is), it wears off reasonable soon.  It is not terribly uncommon to find an abductee who lies down and does not get up for a day or so.  If you wake them up, they often go back to sleep.  Some don’t get up for a day or so, especially if they are alone.  Some end up in comatose like states…again, this is rare.  Families are often very concerned.  The abductee (or the family) doesn’t even know why or how it happens.

Observation of these described phenomena in abductees would indicate these beings know how to manipulate the human psyche and bring about effects they choose.  It’s what they do.  This is one reason why we must be very suspect of what we hear or information we get through reports from the abductee.

 Question: I am interested in the case I heard about in which an abductee had died and then was revived by you.

  I am surprised you have heard about it, as not many know of this case.

This is another interesting case where a woman lost consciousness during a support group meeting and involves some of the techniques I have developed for specialized use with the abductee.  It may have been hypnotic coma initially but soon advanced to apparent death as there was no response and no pulse or respiration.  Two teams of EMTs responded to my requested 911 call.  During the 15 minutes before they came, the lady regained consciousness and began to cry.

In the moments I was racing toward the individual, other support group members were patting her in an attempt to console her.  They did not know that patting is a commonly reported kinesthetic induction used by the alien.  Remember “Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind”?  Roy is being patted on the legs by the aliens.  The writers for Speilberg must think it is some kind of “cosmic greeting”.  I yelled for them to stop patting her as I ran to her. 

I can see the others in attendance are very frightened.  I have seen this before.  This has to be the worst case I have seen to date.  The lady convulses her last moments in my arms as I am holding her.  She is a very fine lady and a friend of mine.  I had worked with her many times and I did not want this to be my last time.

Here is the scene: Those in attendance are in tears and some crying loudly, quieting when I yell to them to stop.  Dr. Karla Turner was present at the meeting and hosting the women’s portion of it.  She was leaning against the back wall and never said a word… reliving her own fears (as many present were) occurring right there in front of her own eyes…this time consciously.  Fears that the alien can and may do as they will to anyone…including death.

Another woman who many think can see auras is present.  She has a look of total shock on her face.  Later she confirms to me that the lady had no aura.  This is the lady who yelled for me from upstairs.  All the women met (30 were in attendance) that day upstairs and the men met downstairs where I was.  I thought at the time it was a bad idea to split the group up; I felt something was wrong…intuition, I guess.

She is not breathing, there is no pulse, her eyes are glassed over, the abductee’s skin is turning blue and it is the conclusion of those who are privy to this event that she has just expired.  At this point, I see (in my view) what has happened…the abductee later confirms this to me.

There is more, and I am not being succinct nor complete here.

In my conventional training, I wanted to do CPR.  My intuition was not to.  I had to go with my intuition and use other techniques.  At this point, I picked up the lady (I am sitting down) and laid her chest to chest with me with her limp neck lying across my left arm.  Her head is rolled toward my left shoulder.  There is no life in this body…no heartbeat.  My intuition was right.  I whisper in the deceased lady’s left ear (her right brain hearing, if any part is hearing at all), and told her certain things.  She came back instantly.

The EMTs arrive and the woman is confused and frightened by all of the commotion, the presence of the EMTs all around her and the women crying, apparently over her.  I told them to filter the questions to me and I would work with her.  In this manner they helped her and then she finally became comfortable enough to work with them.  They found absolutely nothing wrong with her and wondered why we called.

The next day the lady called me.  She asked, “Derrel, what happened?”  I said, “I don’t know, apparently you experienced cerebral anoxia”.  She said, “and for that you called 2 teams of EMTs?  Why didn’t you take care of it?  What really happened?”  I said, “It is the belief of Dr. Turner, myself, and others present that you expired; you died on us.  At this point she began to cry, “I could hear you.  How did you know what to do?”

My response was, “All I want to say is, we are fortunate to have you with us, my remarkable friend.  All I want to tell you about this experience is…there is nothing they can do to us that we cannot (at times) undo”.

With this she cried and we both had some kind words for each other.  She is still with us and a fine member of our support group. 

As you can imagine, we have some real interesting support group meetings.

As an aside to this story…Dr. Karla Turner (Candy) spoke to HUFON shortly after this and made this public announcement.  “There are only two people on this planet that are ever going to work with me in a hypnotic trance.  One is Barbara Bartholic and the other is Derrel Sims.  I have seen this man work in an amazing situation.  I trust him totally”.  I felt more proud than you know.

(Candy later died of metastatic cancer…some think it was alien related).  It is my view and that of her husband Elton, that this is not the case.  She was a fine lady and a dear friend.  Those who knew her loved her and she is greatly missed.

 Question: Not to touch on a sore subject, but do you think the two children who drowned in the pool after an alleged abduction were in that comatose state when they were placed in the larger swimming pool?

 I am indeed impressed.  You are the only one who noticed enough to ask.

A hypothesis could be made that the 2 children were in such a state prior to the drowning.  It seems they made no screams for help at the time and they have a history of being found by others in such a state prior to their final event.

As you know, these 2 children were abducted in a wading pool and dropped off (after their apparent abduction) in a swimming pool of a neighbor.  I have the forensic reports on the children, photos of the deceased children, and the history of the police investigation.  The autopsies and events surrounding this bizarre event suggest to me that the babies were “accidentally”dropped off in the wrong pool.  The bodies were bruised and scuffed from head to feet.  Bodies don’t bruise after death.

The alien presence can’t even get your clothes on right!  I have cases where they dropped off people on the wrong side of the bed, in a wrong room, wrong house, wrong yard, wrong highway, and a bizarre case of 4 men dropped off in the wrong country!  Some of the alien presence seems to be “intellectually challenged”.  Does that sound better?  Most of the time, I think it’s just them in a hurry to get you on your way.

The mother in this case was almost arrested for having missing time of one hour.  Police (and later a Grand Jury) were more than concerned with this anomalous one hour of missing time. The court knew the mother was innocent of any wrong doing to her lovely boys...they just couldn’t figure out where the mother was during this event.   

This is not the first murder or wrongful death case I have worked.  The others were not UFO related.  This one, to my surprise, seems to be connected with the alien agenda in some way.

I used to be a cop and this would have been one of my first questions of her…  “Where were you when your kids were drowning?”  The court cleared her, but until I got into the case, her own questions about the babies and where she was during that one hour continued. 

She told me of the police aspects and then we made progress on finding out where she was during the missing one hour.  She was, of course, tagged (caught) by abducting entities at the same time as the boys.  That’s why she never went looking for them.  She had no idea that this was what had been happening to her and her boys.  They were right outside the front door within her sight while she was ironing; then they all disappear. 

The mother thinks that the aliens killed her children.  In a way, she is right.  I mean I have no lost love for these cosmic kidnappers, but there is no evidence to me that they are guilty of anything other than what I accuse them of.  Or what I have accused them of since before I was 4 years old in my first event in 1952.  Denseness.  I think this is due to the way they must be cloned…or manufactured. 

Imagine a 286 computer with a body…and orders to do things!  If things go wrong, or the abductee does things outside the “program”, errors can happen.  Some can be almost humorous as "the entity" getting your clothes on wrong…or…in extreme cases like this one…your children die.

The crime, besides kidnapping, mental cruelty, assault, battery, and other crimes too numerous to mention, is unintentional manslaughter.  What court do you suppose we take this one to?  Who is going to charge “them”, as the mother was?

These two kids would be playing outside and then found elsewhere later by the mother (and others) leaning against a fence, in a deep “hypnotic like coma”.  They would often be wearing some parts of each other’s clothing and were reportedly difficult to wake up.  This, of course, was occurring after their abductions.

To the original issue, if you’re in such a “hypnotic coma state”, you would not wake up if drowning…or anything else.  This is the most amazingly restful, quiet, complacent state one can get in.

This is why it is administered in hypnotic anesthesia.  This “Esdale” state is not to be confused with “Somnambulistic Analgesia” where you can do surgery but the patient will know what’s going on to some degree.  You are not asleep in hypnosis, you are wide-awake.  You are awake in the Esdale State too, you just don’t care and no longer accept suggestions.  Testing for this state shows the client in a catatonic condition as opposed to normal hypnotic movements (if any) in the normal hypnotic trance. 

There are occasions when members of the Saber team have encountered this state when working with an abductee or a victim of some other trauma.  In addition to the couple of cases mentioned here, I have an interesting coma case in Brazil, which is a good example of this.  For this purpose, I have devised specialized psychological release methods that our team uses.  Otherwise, it can be done with standardized techniques from those who know how to do this.

In the Esdale State (which I use for some surgical patients), the person will feel nothing…amputation can occur and they will not know or remember any pain.  They won’t even care.

 Question: Why are there so many differing stories from abductees about their experience?  I hear about these and other frightening cases and still others that vary from the bizarre to wonderful.

  If you were an alien (whatever that is) and wanted to program someone into believing that you were there to save the world and fix the ozone hole, etc. but in effect, going to do something else, this would be your “magic window” to lead this person down the primrose path.

Not all people are placed in this wonderful “hypnotic coma” I have described when abducted.  Many times individuals are in Somnambulistic Analgesia (or less) and are left in a massive fear state, hence you think, wonder, or remember you are an abductee.  And you actually remember the trauma!  You see, your body remembers with tactile memory, the physicalness of the event and this memory is stored in your body.  It doesn’t matter if your captors tell you in suggestion; “you won’t remember anything”.  This is why people come forward years later and remember.

You should look at their faces when they see their own video after I finish with their case.  My own Senior Investigator (the one who got dropped off in the wrong state, truck and all and with a witness on board) viewed his.  I told him I did not think he should do that.  Most people don’t want to see the video.  He thought he had 20 min of hypnosis on it.  There was nine hours of video on his case alone.

Your subconscious will always do the best it can to protect you.  That’s why I tell people I work with, “you don’t have to remember anything or any part you are not comfortable or ready to remember”.  In fact, I tell a lot of people, “if you can live with it without remembering…don’t go there”.

Your captors can be telling you the whopper of the century of how great it was and yet your body will shake with horror, as it remembers, in feeling, what you don’t want to remember.  Hence the problematic argument with abductees and contactees…My therapist finds positive events, yours doesn’t; mine has positive energy and your therapist is full of negative energy. 

Energy has little to do with it.  This is really about what the hypnotist is hypnotizing…the screen saver program and calling it memory?  Or perhaps the therapist is picking up that and parts of memory.  The difficulties in hypnotically refreshed memory are, and should be, in question.  

If one is to use this technique, then one should know the difference between memory and recall.  It’s not the same thing!  You can recall a hallucination, but it’s not a real event.  It is a thought process, but did it really happen?  Is it memory or memorex?

This is not to say abductions don’t happen.  I think they do, but they apparently happen on various levels too.  To say all abductions are physical or all are mental is ridiculous.  The evidence does not support either position.  One should therefore look for evidences that the event is true (assuming you, as the therapist, know something of the structure of memory formation and how to access that and have some working knowledge of how these people are worked with).

In other words, when our guys who were POWs in the Korean War came back, some were found to be “brainwashed”.  If you are going to deal with these kinds of issues successfully, you must know what the captor’s intentions or at least his methods were.  Otherwise you’re shooting in the dark.  What occurred in Vietnam occurs in other capture hostage situation through specialized brainwashing techniques.  A person comes to obey and even, in a strange way, almost admire the captors.  Escape is virtually non existent.  This concept became publicly known when Jewish people were captured in Stockholm and these effects were seen.  It can be true anywhere.  This is called the Stockholm syndrome. 

If the syndrome occurs with an abductee, (and it is my experience, that it does) they actually get to like, believe…and even to love their kidnappers.  

Is this alarming you to what we may not know?  It should…on a number of levels.

When you get a psychological reaction (especially different than what the person is saying/ recalling/ believing), you have a problem.  This is a clue to be explored.  55% of all communication is the physiology of anyone.  It is imperative to watch this with abductees.  What they say is not your primary interest at this point of questioning.  38% of all communication is the tone, pitch and timber of the voice. 

Now you may have a person describing the glories of the “School of Wisdom” that the aliens have enrolled them in and at the same time, you have a physiology (55%) and voice …tone, pitch and timber (38% more data) that is telling you that the audible words (only 7%) is inconsistent with the other 93% of communication.  So what do you think I see when I see this?

Another problem, as I see it, is the kind of techniques used to retrieve “refreshed memory”.  Since forensic standards are often not used, some system of evaluation should be introduced.  One of the problems is the use of “dissociated techniques” to reclaim memory.  Disassociative techniques are those like “get behind this curtain and view your event”.  If it’s too bad, imagine another curtain you are standing behind.  Now watch yourself watching yourself watch the event”.

First problem…you were never behind a curtain.  That’s called hallucination.  You are causing the person to hallucinate!  These are therapeutic techniques that are wonderful for altering or destroying memory sequences…that’s why they are used so effectively in situations where other methods of intervention are required.  I use some of these techniques to remove severe phobias in 12 minutes.  If it will assail a person’s memory of a phobia that well, what do you think it may be doing to your “real memory” of an event that you need the truth from? 

Linda Moulton Howe says it well.  “Hypnosis is a helpful tool - that's what doctors call it - but it is not 100% accurate.  Now, when you're dealing with this question of an extra-terrestrial civilization interacting with our planet, this ‘hall of mirrors with a quicksand floor’, where they have the ability to block minds, and to project images into minds, and to create holograms that we can't distinguish from reality, well, you're already on a landscape that is so slippery, that how can anyone know what anyone is describing?”

Hypnosis is not 100% accurate!  What do you know that is?  Voice stress analyzer… polygraph?  And then if your hypnotist doesn’t know what techniques the aliens are using or what his skills are compared to their own, you, the abductee are indeed on quicksand.  Holograms and projected images can often be detected through hypnosis, applied kinesiology in combination with other techniques of (NLP) Neuro Linguistic Programming and other techniques using neuro psychology.

You must know who you hunt.  A successful hunter knows his prey.  They knew me and now I am knowing them.  That is why it is not impossible to find physical evidence.

No wonder so many people think so many different things about abductions.  Goodness sakes alive!  What a mess!  For this and other reasons, I keep pretty much to myself.  We just keep plodding along.

The contactee’s favorite therapist and that therapist’s favorite model of what they think happened to you may be the order of the day.  I mean one lady therapist has contactees believing that they are all getting married to the aliens.  Did anyone notice that they don’t have any genitalia? …a minor thing I discovered as a child in 1952 (you notice these things when you are 4).  But then I am being politically incorrect and gender specific.

An abductee may, in all likelihood, obtain recall or hallucination while the body is having memory (real time events).  If this happens, you could literally be screaming (so to speak) while you would be confused as to why you’re having synergistic, or multiple, and often conflicting feelings not compatible with your 7% linguistic patterns.  Then you would be describing your supposed “School of Wisdom” or whatever they wanted to pawn off on you.  Does that make sense?

This could not be clearer in a case with a Slovakian Professor’s wife in her event.  At her request (and I was in agreement it would be therapeutic for her in this case), I hypnotized her using revivification techniques.

Although she had no conscious memory, I noticed trauma through very slight visual and tactile responses to my questions of her alleged events (55% of all communication is physiology).  She was sharp enough that she noticed there was an underlying problem...but could not readily identify it.  Her event was blatantly opposite of what her "screen saver memory" was.  Remember that your physiology is the best external barometer to what is happening inside. 

I used hypnotic linguistic questioning techniques to ascertain "conscious and subconscious" clues and glaring differences she sometimes made in the same sentence.  This was all occurring without her awareness.  What she did notice is that she felt something was not right, though her "intellectual" reasoning told her "everything was fine". 

With revivification techniques you are the same age as at the time of the event and looking out of the same eyes.  This is in opposition to visualizing yourself behind a curtain with your therapist helping you to hallucinate the event. 

You will be hearing out of those same ears and seeing out of those same eyes you had at the actual time of the event (as opposed to now, thinking and imagining what you heard years ago). 

You speak with the same voice (using the words you spoke with at that age) as you are experiencing everything in the same body at the same time.  Watching it can be most instructive and quite fascinating; anything that happened there, the individual will remember...often shocking to them.  They will describe their own clothes and other items in detail.

When you have a person recalling events through a revivification process and those events can be verified with other witnesses, weather reports, etc., you can be pretty sure the truth of the event has become evident.

This is just my thinking and nothing I want to get beat up over or anything.  There is much more to this.  It will come out in the books.

 Question: In your experience, do you see a high level of this comatose state affecting abductees?

  Not like what very probably affected the cases described here.

I had worked on a fascinating baby case (an abductee's child), that was picked up on the 31st of every month for 14 months...if there was no 31st that month, he was not picked up.  The case drove the child’s doctors nuts.  The child would be back in the crib, in this coma like state, and when awake, the child would have a glassed-over look on his face for hours.  The child grew up and has been on Ritalin ever since...rage and extreme anger seems to be the root cause for his difficulties.  

Question:  If so, how many would you estimate are affected by this and what is the medical (both physical and psychological) dangers associated with this induced state?  Is your staff prepared to handle these emergencies?

  Most of the work I do does not involve hypnosis.  There are very good memory recovery techniques available without it.  I like to use hypnosis if the client wants it and I want to check a time in an event often from years ago.  For example, “What was the weather like that exact night?”  Many of the events are years to many years ago and repetitive in order like any history of a person is.  If they are real, one should be able to coordinate the weather situation and other events.  This is so easy to corroborate through the weather service and adds credibility to the memory of the experience. 

There is very little danger involved in the medical/therapeutic use of hypnosis at all, even if the person is in “hypnotic coma”.  The state seems alarming because one does not respond to suggestions.  They can be brought out of the state; otherwise I would have a problem getting them home, so to speak.  We would have to send them home by a special “catatonic taxicab”.  Such is not the case.

I train my own investigators.  I know what they can do.  Dale Musser is my Senior Investigator.  He is sharp, a good hypnotist and a good example of the quality of investigators working with me.  According to Linda Moulton Howe, Dale is the clearest headed abductee she has ever interviewed.  He (like others I have trained) makes clear distinctions between what may have happened and what is factual.

If the aliens are involved in this induced state, the picture changes. 

The psychological effects (good, bad, and ugly), may forever color your experience in ways that some abductees get over or capitalize on in the most creative and wonderful way…it almost destroys others I have met and seen.           

To answer your question…Are we equipped for these kinds of emergencies? 

I think we have done our share.